Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Caolam]

There is no hiding place that we have to improve but to also be positive we may also win tomorrow as our away form rightly offers a decent chance. Therefore we could also finish comfortably top half and with a cup which is hardly then grasping at straws. Don't judge the race until it's over.

Sorry to disagree but the best time to judge the race, particularly a long campaign like the Premiership, is during it. We are underperforming, we need to change. I hope that tomorrow brings a massive change, I hope all Martinez' plans come together and we beat Utd 0-4 and then go unbeaten until the end of the season. Big day at Wembley coasting to an easy win. Do I expect it to happen, NO. I expect one or two good performances but the rest inept. I expect this because that is what the last two seasons have served up.
I keep repeating myself, for outcomes to change then inputs have to change. It is a stupid man who thinks that if he keeps doing the same thing over and over again he will achieve a different result.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Coke? harsh that like I'd say more a hippie

Dunno y'know....

What a beautiful doo though eh? (WTF did he ask for there? EDIT: 'I'll have a half an' half please...')

Off topic...soz...MARTINEZ OUT etc...

 

[matty1878]

Dunno y'know....

What a beautiful doo though eh? (WTF did he ask for there?)

Off topic...soz...MARTINEZ OUT etc...

View attachment 20438

That was the style then I guess but he's still got a pony tail! and Martinez out....

 

[moyes cardy]

Sorry to disagree but the best time to judge the race, particularly a long campaign like the Premiership, is during it. We are underperforming, we need to change. I hope that tomorrow brings a massive change, I hope all Martinez' plans come together and we beat Utd 0-4 and then go unbeaten until the end of the season. Big day at Wembley coasting to an easy win. Do I expect it to happen, NO. I expect one or two good performances but the rest inept. I expect this because that is what the last two seasons have served up.
I keep repeating myself, for outcomes to change then inputs have to change. It is a stupid man who thinks that if he keeps doing the same thing over and over again he will achieve a different result.

The away form doesn't need any change of approach, so more of the same for tomorrow. Not disagreeing we need to improve at home this is clear but when quoting overall form and position you also have to offer credit for away and now both cup runs.

 

[Caolam]

Goal difference is a very accurate indication of where a team will eventually finish. The few times it hasn't been the team have reverted to type the following season.
And as we haven't lost narrowly to sixteen teams but probably drawn a handful while being the better team then I don't see a point in answering your question. If you don't think it's positive to read a relatively accurate indicator that our league position will improve then I'm not sure why you want to debate with someone who does.

A better indicator of where you will finish is the number of points you have won. If you loose four games 1-0 and win one 5-0 you only have 3 points but a positive goal difference. If you win four games 1-0 and lose one 5-0 then you have 12 points and a negative goal difference.
Strikes me the points system is the one to rely on when assessing performance.

 

[oldblue]

....you're basing what may potentially turn out to be an 'improved' season on 'stats'& 'indicators'.

Like it's actually OK that we're even resorting that.

Aces.

Just relating them to balance out the predictions we may end up 15th. It seems pretty reliable. Good news?

 

[oldblue]

I love it mate

'Let's ignore what has happened and is actually happening, as we can cross our fingers for what might happen'.

It's like religion

It's actually maths. It proves nothing. It just provides a potential positive. Can't see why you'd not enjoy it.

 

[Woolly Blue]

The away form doesn't need any change of approach, so more of the same for tomorrow. Not disagreeing we need to improve at home this is clear but when quoting overall form and position you also have to offer credit for away and now both cup runs.

We're 12th mate, with the best will in the world, it's very hard to see us finishing above 10th. That's the reality of our combined home and away form. The cup runs are ace, and, as a fan, I'd love him for ever if we won the FA Cup this season, but the league is the bread and butter, and the bread's a bit stale and the butter's just cheap margarine at the moment.

 

[Caolam]

The away form doesn't need any change of approach, so more of the same for tomorrow. Not disagreeing we need to improve at home this is clear but when quoting overall form and position you also have to offer credit for away and now both cup runs.

I do offer credit for away form and indeed some cup performances, it is because of these performances that I feel we are underperforming in general. We know we can play, we just don't seem to be able to translate that into a sustained challenge.
I am not saying we should get rid of Martinez because he hasn't got a clue, I am saying his style doesn't suit us over a league campaign and he appears to be unwilling to change so he doesn't suit us. It is just not working, so fix it.

 

[oldblue]

A better indicator of where you will finish is the number of points you have won. If you loose four games 1-0 and win one 5-0 you only have 3 points but a positive goal difference. If you win four games 1-0 and lose one 5-0 then you have 12 points and a negative goal difference.
Strikes me the points system is the one to rely on when assessing performance.

Well it turns out goal difference is even more reliable. Don't shoot the messenger

 

[Caolam]

Well it turns out goal difference is even more reliable. Don't shoot the messenger

Can you look at the league table, look at the team above us and the team below us. I take your point that most of the teams with a positive goal difference are at the top. Generally the better your goal difference the higher you are. However all the teams with mote points than us are above us. In fact if a team has more points than you they are above you in every case.
Goal difference is an indication, points are a positive statement.
In my book that makes them a more reliable indicator.

 

[FisherEFC]

Wouldn't bother arguing with some people they just don't live in the reality. It'll be Bobby should be kept on cuz he wears lovely shoes next.

Never thought I would see the day where some of our fans would accept mediocrity, not with this quality young squad. People had more ambition when we had pistone and Li tie ffs never mind international quality players.

 

[oldblue]

Can you look at the league table, look at the team above us and the team below us. I take your point that most of the teams with a positive goal difference are at the top. Generally the better your goal difference the higher you are. However all the teams with mote points than us are above us. In fact if a team has more points than you they are above you in every case.
Goal difference is an indication, points are a positive statement.
In my book that makes them a more reliable indicator.

Obviously all that matters is points. But plenty of people are happy to include speculation about how bad things can get into the argument. But there's a backlash when an independent source says that if you judge by all known precedents we will move up a few places. Statistics can't prove the future but if they're unbiased then they can help you make better estimates.
Right at the moment if it was an evens bet based on those statistics I'd be lumping on finishing higher than twelfth.
What I don't understand is why anyone is unhappy with this.

 

[davek]

Same amount of sway as you Dave, although you insinuate you have understandings of the inner machinations of the club. You do know we all add to the behaviour in this thread by slagging each other off? *Hand up too*

No mate, I dont insinuate anything of the sort. I merely juxtaposed the lynch mob mentality on a forum with the reality of a manager and chairman in synch. That's all.

If you're looking for insinuation try some here who feel THEY DO have the inside info and seem certain Martinez will be sacked.

 

[oldblue]

Wouldn't bother arguing with some people they just don't live in the reality. It'll be Bobby should be kept on cuz he wears lovely shoes next.

Never thought I would see the day where some of our fans would accept mediocrity, not with this quality young squad. People had more ambition when we had pistone and Li tie ffs never mind international quality players.

If you like to live in the real world I assume you were right on the case when fans were suggesting we were destined for 15th or worse.
Or is that the non reality you're comfortable with?