LAToffee
Player Valuation: £20m
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LAToffee
Player Valuation: £20m
We're moaning because it's such an obviously reactionary thread. It's like the weather or a zombie: it reappears every time we lose. That's not "analysis" or "discussion of the manager." That's just whinging and moaning because we're not a top European team. And btw who would want to discuss a manager in the abstract: "Bobby, yes or no?" Surely we'd want to be discussing particular features of his coaching or management. Have absolutely no problem, people talking about our defending on corners, Bobby's treatment of Kev. But 2/3 of this thread is about whether to sack our manager. Those who favor him come on here because it's about the culture of GOT: keyboard warriors calling for sacking the manager because we're meant to have won the league by now.
Carlito
Player Valuation: £40m
It gets bumped after every win, draw or soundbite too. He's a divisive figure, so there's always going to be someone with something to say about him.
If you want a particular type of discussion, you're probably going to have to start it yourself.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
It's this sort of binary simplification of every issue which makes this place tiring at times. A part of this thread (around our huge slump in form last season) was about whether to sack the manager as it was a topical discussion at the time such was the severity of our form. Since then though I haven't seen 2/3 of posts being about whether or not to sack the manager. There are people like myself who have reservations about him but that doesn't mean I want to sack him. There doesn't seem to be room for a shade of grey though. You're either a plotter or you're not. No one is criticising Martinez after one game because we're not the top side in Europe. Believe me after 20 years of jack all I think its a bit rich calling this fan base keyboard warriors who want the manager out because we haven't won the league, its almost so ludicrous its funny.
It's exactly because there's shades of grey in opinion that this thread keeps appearing after every game (good and bad, nice try though going for the moral high ground). With every game another piece of evidence is being added to help shape people's opinions. The polls after each game were ridiculous, but after a manager has had a few seasons people can start to see patterns in what the team does both good and bad. Which is why it's so stupid when people trivialise other fans opinions by rephrasing them in the ridiculous ie 'so you think Howard is a bad keeper because he made one mistake against Liverpool, bad knee jerk fan you are lad, proper Fifa fanboy keyboard warrior just desperate to have a pop at anything because you want Martinez fired'. It's these sort of ridiculous reactions that just stifles any sort of variety of opinion on here.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
This 'binary simplification' is everywhere in debate nowadays, not just this forum. Politics, culture, race, religion, feminism, even brands...it seems the majority of debaters see the world in black & white. Those of us who want to discuss nuances are getting less useful feedback than say a few years ago.
Internet discussion has dumbed down, and I think the reasons are concepts like nested discussions (which you often see now under news articles on newspaper sites) and likes (which are everywhere). These encourage partisan views and one-line 'wit' designed to get quick feedback in terms of being replied to and receiving thumbs-up points. There's been studies on this: the flashing of new likes releases chemicals in the brain...it's addictive.
This forum actually offers exceptionally-good debate, relatively speaking (when comparing to what else is out there).
I've posted on the forum since the first day. What always made it successful was that you could debate and have polar opposite opinions without falling out or being rude the person you disagree with.
It's perfectly apt to have this thread open as he's the current Everton manager. What will get pulled up are unreasonable and tittish comments, agreed with a few of you who have noted the polarisation of almost any contentious topic on here.
Whether pro Martinez or anti Martinez it's usually those with the most defined opinion that antagonise others with their tripe, or alienate decent moderate posters from the topic by turning it into a massive melt off of opposing views.
It's really sound to have moderate opinion or not be sure of stuff and admit it. Like Martinez really, maybe you have good and negative opinions at the same time.
What would be good would be to open this thread and see a few consistent pages of views and comments on Martinez without the usual sniping. Like GOT used to have.
Everything was so much better in the black and white days obviously. I'll shut up now.
It's perfectly apt to have this thread open as he's the current Everton manager. What will get pulled up are unreasonable and tittish comments, agreed with a few of you who have noted the polarisation of almost any contentious topic on here.
Whether pro Martinez or anti Martinez it's usually those with the most defined opinion that antagonise others with their tripe, or alienate decent moderate posters from the topic by turning it into a massive melt off of opposing views.
It's really sound to have moderate opinion or not be sure of stuff and admit it. Like Martinez really, maybe you have good and negative opinions at the same time.
What would be good would be to open this thread and see a few consistent pages of views and comments on Martinez without the usual sniping. Like GOT used to have.
Everything was so much better in the black and white days obviously. I'll shut up now.
Now you know how people feel when they read your posts.
SpurtingLesbian
Ken Dodd Nagasaki
If people think that Martinez is 'a divisive figure' then they really should get out more.
I think what you mean to say is that some people never wanted him in the first place (fair enough, their opinion) so he can do no right in their eyes and they aren't shy about telling everyone at the slightest opportunity.
It's not about Bobby and his management, it's about some posters relationship with the club.
Some just pay their money and go because they believe it's a licence to go shout a lot and get everyday frustration out of their system. I seriously hope these people are banned from having pets. Others have this bizarre expectation that we should be winning 100% of all matches, never give the ball away once, Tim should stop every attempt on goal because tgats his job and if the opposition scores then he's not doing it and Rom should score from ever half chance because that's what we pay him a lot of money to do. They think that if we don't win 5-0/6-0 every week then someone/everyone is to blame. This also is obviously unrealistic and shows a massive misunderstanding of the game. There IS another team out there you know who are also trying to win, that's why it's a sport.
Players, Management are human, they WILL make mistakes for a variety of reasons, everyone does. Some will make them again and again, yes I get that it's frustrating. But constant unrealistic sniping is pointless, especially when there are so many good things going on about the club at the moment.
People should suck it up a bit more and try to understand why some of Bobby's decisions are made. Then think of another reason why the it as the logical decision to make and not use hindsight to prove people wrong.
This might shock a few people, but most of my posts are for the "wow" factor.
That game the other day was horrific, it happens, im well over it now, on to the next 1 innit.
YNWA
That game the other day was horrific, it happens, im well over it now, on to the next 1 innit.
YNWA
TheFinnFan
Finners
Have to pick myself up again after reading that... and go to work....
LAToffee
Player Valuation: £20m
I wasn't referring to the fanbase. I was referring to the cross-section of posters on this thread who consider every game we play more evidence on whether Martinez should be sacked or not. I wasn't even talking about this forum; I was talking about this particular thread. Honestly, I think the thread's become reductive. Rather, than discuss our form, our formations, our strengths and our weaknesses, we're taking the temperature on how we feel about the manager ("he's got to go"; "generally I'm supportive but the next couple of games will tell me whether I think he should be sacked or not"; "I think he's the best manager since...."). And I know you're not expecting miracles and I'm sure you weren't calling for his sacking after every game last season, but I do think you should hold your nose and take a cold-eyed look at this thread over the last year (I know: who's got the time!). It's not pretty. And I'm not saying I'm above it, but I think this thread has become dead. And yes I know: I can swerve it and I guess I will from here on in. But let me add that I've no desire to stifle discussion on this great forum and, to the degree, I gave that impression, I am genuinely well served by your reply. Cheers. COYB.
SpurtingLesbian
Ken Dodd Nagasaki
To me the First Post says all you need to know about this thread, posted 8 DAYS after Bobby's appointment and nearly a month before pre-season starts made by a poster who wasn't even registered as a user under Moyes.
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