Roberto Martinez discussion

[dead_soft]

The idiom 'all over the shop' suggests a mish mash, an inconsistency. I would suggest that our results and performances are very much inconsistent, (ie all over the shop). I am not saying Martinez deliberately changes things for changes sake (ie he has his rationale), but I am saying that performance inconsistency calls to question that rationale,

It doesn't suggest inconsistency, it suggests disorganisation and lack of coordination in thinking

 

[deipnosophist]

I think you're looking into it way too deep.

Whil I personally wouldn't have for example Naismith on the flank ahead of Mirallas for any game, Martinez seems to.

Then add the other factors off the actual pitch which will no doubt have an effect, and we won't ever know about them. In my example, if Mirallas is being a nobhead in training or whatever, then Naismith gets in.

Basically, lots and lots goes on that we don't know about.

I think you are presuming too great a depth to my critique . Bottom line : Everton's performances are inconsistent. Martinez's selections are inconsistent/constantly tweaked.
Therein, I reckon there's a connection/cause and effect.

 

[ijjysmith]

I think you are presuming too great a depth to my critique . Bottom line : Everton's performances are inconsistent. Martinez's selections are inconsistent/constantly tweaked.
Therein, I reckon there's a connection/cause and effect.

Proabably true. To put my point simply, I reckon the tweaks to the team are for good reasons (even if they balls up quite a lot), rather than him tinkering because he's bored or pissing about!

 

[Saint Domingo]

I reckon he knows his best 11 but it's just the wrong one. If it was the right one we wouldn't go down in so many games and have to rescue them using the subs.

 

[deipnosophist]

It doesn't suggest inconsistency, it suggests disorganisation and lack of coordination in thinking

I said a mish mash as well.... And I'd argue inconsistency can suggest an underlying type of disorganisation and lack of coordination.
So, as you were...

 

[deipnosophist]

Proabably true. To put my point simply, I reckon the tweaks to the team are for good reasons (even if they balls up quite a lot), rather than him tinkering because he's bored or pissing about!

And therein mate, we've just concluded debate full circle. I don't think for a second he's doing it because he's "bored or pissing about", he's doing it with a tactical rationale. And there's the rub...performances aren't endorsing that rationale. Which is why I question Martinez's managerial (football-wise) acumen.

 

[ijjysmith]

And therein mate, we've just concluded debate full circle. I don't think for a second he's doing it because he's "bored or pissing about", he's doing it with a tactical rationale. And there's the rub...performances aren't endorsing that rationale. Which is why I question Martinez's managerial (football-wise) acumen.

I can't even remember what we were on about in the start mate so well in!

 

[Lowste]

We don't have time tho
If we finish the bottom half again do you think Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Deulefou, Coleman etc will stay? I despair for you if you do

Why should we be happy, after years of having no money, we spend to build a better squad for us to be struggling in mid table

I really hope we see the best of this squad cos it really does excite but however you look at it, we need them to click quickly or it either he or the players will be gone

Oh and having been going the game since 82 and being brought up on that era, "plucky everton" winds me the [Poor language removed] up

So you expect instant success, I despair for you my friend

Even with the money we have spent we still fall way behind at least 6 teams, so in reality we will struggle.
Our only hope is to build a squad and hope we have the season of all seasons and win silverware or get in the top 4
As for struggling in mid table, do you mean now or last season

 

[Jimmywhack]

I do

So you expect instant success, I despair for you my friend

Even with the money we have spent we still fall way behind at least 6 teams, so in reality we will struggle.
Our only hope is to build a squad and hope we have the season of all seasons and win silverware or get in the top 4
As for struggling in mid table, do you mean now or last season

I don't expect instant success but I do expect better than what we are seeing. Is that too much to ask.

I'm not saying we should get top 4 but we should be challenging, holding our own. Not winning 9 home games outta 28

How can we build a squad if we are mid table? That's my point.

If we carry on as we are we will finish tenth ish.

Let's see where we are in at Xmas tho, I am hoping it's better than now, no reason why it can't be

 

[Dymak]

Mccarthy is good enough to get us to the top 4.
What is holding him back is his partnership with barry its too defensive minded.
We need to create more chances and take the shackles off.
I think every team in the prem would say another 4 quality signings would make them into a top 4 team.
We actually got there with a threadbare squad and marcus bent leading the line anything is possible.
We have the players now who could get us there the manager just needs to find the right way to make it happen

I disagree mate. Our team is not good enough to finish top four, no matter how much people delude themselves into thinking it is. Same goes for McCarthy, he might look OK in a mid table Everton side but he really isn't top four standard at all. Everton will be the biggest club he plays for, and I doubt he will ever play in the Champions League in his entire career. He is Shelvey standard, although Id actually prefer to have Shelvey, as at least he has a modicum of attacking ability and McCarthy's defensive capabilities are massively overrated. We are a mid table side, and have been for decades.

 

[mkrudden]

I personally think Mirrallas was tied to a new deal to protect his value more than anything else.

He will leave in January and Yarmolenko will come in for a net 15million.

I really think Martinez just wants to hang on in there in the top half until January, add the above, then he will coordinate an all out assault on the top 5.

 

[roydo]

I personally think Mirrallas was tied to a new deal to protect his value more than anything else.

He will leave in January and Yarmolenko will come in for a net 15million.

I really think Martinez just wants to hang on in there in the top half until January, add the above, then he will coordinate an all out assault on the top 5.

That does have a logical feel about it tbf. Never thought of that myself, but makes some sense.

 

[Zatara]

Agree with most of this other than McCarthy

But McCarthy just isn't very good at going forward or engaging in attacking and creative play.

I agree with those saying stuff like we need at least three or four additions if we want to compete for top four. However some people have difficulty accepting which positions need strengthening. At the moment it is left wing, central midfield, goalkeeper and attack.

Tom Cleverly is not going to be good enough to get you top four, neither is McCarthy in midfield, Howard is a joke, and we need a striker to compliment and compete with Lukaku. We will remain at the same level Moyes had us competing at for years unless these players and positions are improved upon.

 

[Zatara]

I actually had the Indiana Jones theme going through my head on your last paragraph...lets hope so!

I personally think Mirrallas was tied to a new deal to protect his value more than anything else.

He will leave in January and Yarmolenko will come in for a net 15million.

I really think Martinez just wants to hang on in there in the top half until January, add the above, then he will coordinate an all out assault on the top 5.

 

[ijjysmith]

I personally think Mirrallas was tied to a new deal to protect his value more than anything else.

He will leave in January and Yarmolenko will come in for a net 15million.

I really think Martinez just wants to hang on in there in the top half until January, add the above, then he will coordinate an all out assault on the top 5.

I'd accept the scenario.

Doubt it though.