Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

When I said a few weeks ago after the Swansea game I would of preferred that we brought in Billic in the summer of 2013 I got a lot of stick. My view is that he would of been a better fit at Everton than Martinez. We are a huge club with a huge fan base, we have a support that is only rivalled by that of Liverpool, United and Arsenal. We took 8000 to France year, our lovable neighbours across the park took around 2000 or less to France this year. Martinez has never managed a club like Everton before with passionate supporters, like Billic has. In my opinion he still just doesn't get it playing nice football and creating a few chances but ultimately losing at Arsenal is not an achievement at Everton. Billic doesn't take any nonsense or excuses from his players, he gives his players to confidence to beat anybody, that's why he's beaten Arsenal, Liverpool and City away in his first season plus Chelsea at home. Even some of the biggest Martinez fans on here have say that's impressive. My view is that Martinez simply isn't a manager suited to managing a huge club like Everton, we care more about results that possession stats or fancy football.

Some Arsenal fans were saying they wanted Martinez over Wenger during his first season with us. Nigel Pearson went on a brilliant run with Leicester, as did Tim Sherwood with Villa last season. Pardew once had Newcastle in fifth before battling relegation with them every other season. You just cannot view the premier league in a short term way. Bilic's day will come when it will all come crashing down (probably over the next few months) and hopefully e are reaping the benefits of our long term approach with Martinez and have selected the right man. Far too early to tell on Bilic yet though. Even Di Canio looked decent in his first 10 games.

 

[LAToffee]

When I said a few weeks ago after the Swansea game I would of preferred that we brought in Billic in the summer of 2013 I got a lot of stick. My view is that he would of been a better fit at Everton than Martinez. We are a huge club with a huge fan base, we have a support that is only rivalled by that of Liverpool, United and Arsenal. We took 8000 to France year, our lovable neighbours across the park took around 2000 or less to France this year. Martinez has never managed a club like Everton before with passionate supporters, like Billic has. In my opinion he still just doesn't get it playing nice football and creating a few chances but ultimately losing at Arsenal is not an achievement at Everton. Billic doesn't take any nonsense or excuses from his players, he gives his players to confidence to beat anybody, that's why he's beaten Arsenal, Liverpool and City away in his first season plus Chelsea at home. Even some of the biggest Martinez fans on here have say that's impressive. My view is that Martinez simply isn't a manager suited to managing a huge club like Everton, we care more about results that possession stats or fancy football.

Here is the league attendance. Apologies: we get more like 38,000 to home games, but look at the teams ahead of us: http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

 

[maccavennie]

Here is the league attendance. Apologies: we get more like 38,000 to home games, but look at the teams ahead of us: http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

I think he's talking more about our away following mate though I may be wrong. When I talk about our support being massive, the home average is sound but it's the away following where you can really see what clubs make an effort. 10k to France being his example,nearly every away game sold out - 2k at Swansea and then 4 days later another 4k away at Reading is some mileage

 

[jinkyali]

When I said a few weeks ago after the Swansea game I would of preferred that we brought in Billic in the summer of 2013 I got a lot of stick. My view is that he would of been a better fit at Everton than Martinez. We are a huge club with a huge fan base, we have a support that is only rivalled by that of Liverpool, United and Arsenal. We took 8000 to France year, our lovable neighbours across the park took around 2000 or less to France this year. Martinez has never managed a club like Everton before with passionate supporters, like Billic has. In my opinion he still just doesn't get it playing nice football and creating a few chances but ultimately losing at Arsenal is not an achievement at Everton. Billic doesn't take any nonsense or excuses from his players, he gives his players to confidence to beat anybody, that's why he's beaten Arsenal, Liverpool and City away in his first season plus Chelsea at home. Even some of the biggest Martinez fans on here have say that's impressive. My view is that Martinez simply isn't a manager suited to managing a huge club like Everton, we care more about results that possession stats or fancy football.

Martinez has beaten all those teams as a manager.

 

[LAToffee]

I think he's talking more about our away following mate though I may be wrong. When I talk about our support being massive, the home average is sound but it's the away following where you can really see what clubs make an effort. 10k to France being his example,nearly every away game sold out - 2k at Swansea and then 4 days later another 4k away at Reading is some mileage

Fair enough. Just think the formula of "huge club with huge fan base" makes people think we have loads of revenue and should be automatically winning trophies and that a manager who doesn't deliver that kind of success is "small time." This is delusional. Our home attendance, which I imagine generates a lot less revenue than Spurs (who have a slightly lower attendance) and the money we spend transfer window after transfer window explains where we are. Bilic wouldn't change that. Maybe Martinez won't work out, but I'll wait for a couple of seasons before I decide that Bilic is a better manager than Martinez. Actually, apart from Moyes, has there been a manager in the history of the premier league (i.e. since sky money transformed the game) that has consistently overachieved on a tiny budget?

 

[Kiwi]

I can't wait for us to drop further down the table and people to start advocating Redknapp, Allardyce, Gary Neville, Sherwood et al. as managerial options that would be "better" than Martinez.
What a time to be alive

 

[maccavennie]

Fair enough. Just think the formula of "huge club with huge fan base" makes people think we have loads of revenue and should be automatically winning trophies and that a manager who doesn't deliver that kind of success is "small time." This is delusional. Our home attendance, which I imagine generates a lot less revenue than Spurs (who have a slightly lower attendance) and the money we spend transfer window after transfer window explains where we are. Bilic wouldn't change that. Maybe Martinez won't work out, but I'll wait for a couple of seasons before I decide that Bilic is a better manager than Martinez. Actually, apart from Moyes, has there been a manager in the history of the premier league (i.e. since sky money transformed the game) that has consistently overachieved on a tiny budget?

It's a good point mate regarding has a manager succeeded on a tiny budget, not many for sure. Martinez has had cash to spend for sure, certainly a lot more than we've been used to as fans for a good number of years. I still have to wipe my eyes in disbelief that we spent 28m on one player!

Bilic, meh not arsed about him. But on the same note Martinez does my absolute nut in on so many things that for my own personal health I should give up being arsed about the things he does. We've got a quality squad imo, one that will probably be broken up in the summer and we will have to start again due to not taking this league by the balls and throwing away great chances to get results or simply not performing for half a game EVERY game. Our home form is an absolute shambles that much is true!

 

[LAToffee]

It's a good point mate regarding has a manager succeeded on a tiny budget, not many for sure. Martinez has had cash to spend for sure, certainly a lot more than we've been used to as fans for a good number of years. I still have to wipe my eyes in disbelief that we spent 28m on one player!

Bilic, meh not arsed about him. But on the same note Martinez does my absolute nut in on so many things that for my own personal health I should give up being arsed about the things he does. We've got a quality squad imo, one that will probably be broken up in the summer and we will have to start again due to not taking this league by the balls and throwing away great chances to get results or simply not performing for half a game EVERY game. Our home form is an absolute shambles that much is true!

Hate to do the kopite move of discussing "net spend" but I do think that Lukaku has to be put in a larger context of players sold. I'd imagine Martinez hasn't got a lot more money to spend over the last year transfer windows than Moyes in his last three. Had to be given some money to attract him here and there is more money around generally because of the various tv deals. Don't disagree that he hasn't spent, but I'd imagine it's been a whole lot less than any other team in the top 10. But I agree that the home form has been miserable and our form/league position will have to improve significantly if we want to keep a number of our younger players. Between now and New Year is a vital spell for our season: will we be in the hunt for top 4 in the league? will we still be in the cups?

 

[kithnou]

Hate to do the kopite move of discussing "net spend" but I do think that Lukaku has to be put in a larger context of players sold. I'd imagine Martinez hasn't got a lot more money to spend over the last year transfer windows than Moyes in his last three. Had to be given some money to attract him here and there is more money around generally because of the various tv deals. Don't disagree that he hasn't spent, but I'd imagine it's been a whole lot less than any other team in the top 10. But I agree that the home form has been miserable and our form/league position will have to improve significantly if we want to keep a number of our younger players. Between now and New Year is a vital spell for our season: will we be in the hunt for top 4 in the league? will we still be in the cups?

don't do that to yourself man

 

[maccavennie]

Hate to do the kopite move of discussing "net spend" but I do think that Lukaku has to be put in a larger context of players sold. I'd imagine Martinez hasn't got a lot more money to spend over the last year transfer windows than Moyes in his last three. Had to be given some money to attract him here and there is more money around generally because of the various tv deals. Don't disagree that he hasn't spent, but I'd imagine it's been a whole lot less than any other team in the top 10. But I agree that the home form has been miserable and our form/league position will have to improve significantly if we want to keep a number of our younger players. Between now and New Year is a vital spell for our season: will we be in the hunt for top 4 in the league? will we still be in the cups?

Don't get me wrong mate I wasn't slating him for spending 28m on Lukaku, money well spent imo and if we built the side around him he would a score a bucket full.

There's a few who I think would be off in the summer if we didn't show the kind of signs you mention such as top 4, good cup runs. Certainly a real important run coming up now starting with Tuesday which is a great chance to progress to the QF ( I think? ) of the league cup

 

[LAToffee]

don't do that to yourself man

In my deluded world, "in the hunt" means anywhere between 16th and 5th.

 

[orly]

I can't wait for us to drop further down the table and people to start advocating Redknapp, Allardyce, Gary Neville, Sherwood et al. as managerial options that would be "better" than Martinez.
What a time to be alive

Or we can stick with Bottom Half Bobby

 

[Kiwi]

Or we can stick with Bottom Half Bobby

Chat again in January lad x
The next fixtures and whether we can break down teams that sit back vs us will be the making or breaking of the man.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Chat again in January lad x
The next fixtures and whether we can break down teams that sit back vs us will be the making or breaking of the man.

Would agree with this. Perfect run of games coming up to see what level we are at. Players are returning from injury, no European football, two and a bit seasons in. We need to show a bit of consistency in the league. if we can do it we will be sitting pretty come Christmas because the league is wide open. If we stumble through those fixtures then Martinez needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Kiwi]

I'd be looking for us to take at least 18 points out of the next 27.
If we're a good side we should be able to do that, and it would set us up ok for the second half of the season.

We really struggled last year to create much last season against teams that sat back. A prerequisite for me for my ongoing support of the manager is for him to be able to learn from his mistakes. He's done it somewhat already with other areas of the team but learning how to break down teams is crucial in us being the quality side that I believe we can become.