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Roberto Martinez discussion

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The worst thing about the whole Martinez discussion is that there's a distinct lack of balance between the warring factions

The haters won't listen to the positives about Martinez and the defenders won't allow any criticism to be made against their deity

We simply must be allowed to criticise our manager when it's valid to do so. Otherwise we might as well chuck away our Blue shirts and join that cult across the park

However, always looking for a reason to tear into Martinez at every opportunity and trying to discredit him at every turn is exceedingly dirty pool and not helpful in the slightest. We've had some excellent moments with Martinez as manager and he has some very definitive positives about him. He's not flawless and does tend to repeat certain mistakes, which he should in turn be criticised for, but overall I think he could be an excellent manager if he just tightened up those areas

I will repeat my stance, even though the usual suspects will shout me down, that I think he needs to bring someone in to set up and organise the defense. I am not convinced he can do this himself, and this is going back to his Wigan days. I think he needs someone in to handle that aspect and he can handle everything else. I've seen nothing this season to make me think otherwise. The goals against tally does not tell the full story here, because as previously mentioned Howard had freakishly good games against Southampton and Spurs which earned us two undeserved clean sheets
 

Genuinely interested that Gibson is now being seen as a centre half option and one worth moving Stones to right back to accommodate. A stroke of managerial genius/flexibility.

Of course, your agenda has once more enabled you to misunderstand. No one is suggesting moving Stones permanently to RB to accomodate Gibson at CH. We are talking about a situation if an emergency arises. But of course you knew that, didn't you, but chose to ignore it because it didn't suit your little agenda driven comment.
 

The worst thing about the whole Martinez discussion is that there's a distinct lack of balance between the warring factions

The haters won't listen to the positives about Martinez and the defenders won't allow any criticism to be made against their deity

We simply must be allowed to criticise our manager when it's valid to do so. Otherwise we might as well chuck away our Blue shirts and join that cult across the park

However, always looking for a reason to tear into Martinez at every opportunity and trying to discredit him at every turn is exceedingly dirty pool and not helpful in the slightest. We've had some excellent moments with Martinez as manager and he has some very definitive positives about him. He's not flawless and does tend to repeat certain mistakes, which he should in turn be criticised for, but overall I think he could be an excellent manager if he just tightened up those areas

I will repeat my stance, even though the usual suspects will shout me down, that I think he needs to bring someone in to set up and organise the defense. I am not convinced he can do this himself, and this is going back to his Wigan days. I think he needs someone in to handle that aspect and he can handle everything else. I've seen nothing this season to make me think otherwise. The goals against tally does not tell the full story here, because as previously mentioned Howard had freakishly good games against Southampton and Spurs which earned us two undeserved clean sheets
All of this is 100% right. Martinez may be able to spot a good defender but he cannot set up/coach a defence at all, if only we had a Moyes type within the coaches to take care of all things defensively
 
Genuinely interested that Gibson is now being seen as a centre half option and one worth moving Stones to right back to accommodate. A stroke of managerial genius/flexibility.

Its obviously not that he is generally been seen as a CB option.

He wanted Barkley on and for us to go for it more. He chose to take off our least attacking defender for Ross. Positive move.

Stones supported the attack much more than Browning does after that, and Gibson passed well from deep and had very little to deal with as he was well covered by McCarthy.

Just a bit of one off thing to add more to the attack. We didn´t get much better though but I think its always good to try something different.
 
I think there has to be a balance with this. Moyes was here for 11 years and in truth the man who first came through the door was different to the man who left. I think Moyes grew increasingly conservative as time went by and was happy to keep us in the top 6 but never looking to go much beyond it. He wasn't helped by the board never really giving him a chance. How far this was a consequence of Kenwrights actions, or his natural persona is up for debate.

What can't be doubted though was the excitement I felt when Rooney, a 16 year old first came through. No other manager has ever given a 16 year old such game time. It was remarkable really.

He broke up Smiths team and built his own, around players like Osman, Hibbert, Rooney, then younger players like Cahill & Arteta. I just think in his last few years he resolved to stick with the players he trusted.

I always go back to Ferguson. He often spoke about how getting rid of players hurt him greatly, but he knew he had to do it. Moyes I don't think was ever prepared too. It is easier not too in many ways.

The biggest difference between Martinez and Moyes though, was Moyes was interested in finding the outstanding talent from the age group. The Rooney or the Barkley. I don't think he had much interest beyond it. He was looking for people who were ready at 18 or he lost interest.

Martinez is looking at how to develop them more, and introduce them more gradually.

Moyes put in a fantastic system regarding youth too. Great coaches, infrastructure, scouting, networks. Our academy is incredibly strong now and he played a part in that. However by the end he wasn't ready to maximise this.

top post. nailed everything in sight.

the bit in bold is exactly why i never had a problem with him until the last few seasons. he and we got stale as a partnership and i was so glad when united came calling. Martinez is making mistakes, but is doing a lot more good than bad, most of our problems would be solved with a good keeper.
 

Of course, your agenda has once more enabled you to misunderstand. No one is suggesting moving Stones permanently to RB to accomodate Gibson at CH. We are talking about a situation if an emergency arises. But of course you knew that, didn't you, but chose to ignore it because it didn't suit your little agenda driven comment.

What agenda you on about lad ? I like Martinez as a person and wanted him as manager, but not going to be cultist about this and only express doubts about his tactics when he's gone.

Its obviously not that he is generally been seen as a CB option.

He wanted Barkley on and for us to go for it more. He chose to take off our least attacking defender for Ross. Positive move.

Stones supported the attack much more than Browning does after that, and Gibson passed well from deep and had very little to deal with as he was well covered by McCarthy.

Just a bit of one off thing to add more to the attack. We didn´t get much better though but I think its always good to try something different.

Now this is a more reasoned attempt at explanation, from a poster generally that likes to attack when he sees comments he disagrees with
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/29/premier-league-manchester-united-arsenal

Roberto Martínez described Everton’s laboured win against Norwich in midweek as a fantastic cup tie, the sort anyone would want to pay to see, but the relentlessly positive manager was probably in a minority of one with that opinion.

Did Martinez really say that? If so, lol lol lol

i did quite enjoy the game tbh - we were utter rank, but the game itself wasn't totally awful. Maybe i just enjoyed having a keeper winning us a game for once.
 

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