Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

Yes Walter Smith had that school of science open for business before Moyes shut it the kill joy. Royle's team was also affectionately known as the dogs of the school of science. Who can forget Mike Walkers team, poetry in motion.

I forget though that your Everton time line looks something like 1987 - loads of bad stuff that was all Moyes' fault - Martinez the messiah can do no wrong.

 

[catcherintherye]

Moyes had no need to manage Rooney. No manager has ever needed to do that. Rooney's emergence into the first team just coincided with Moyes tenure.

As for his general success rate at bringing younger players on, it was terrible for someone here 11 years. Rodwell, Anichebe and Vaughan were the only ones to get a career at Everton.

Well yes. I think you have to factor is Hibbert and Osman were given first team opportunities by him too. Alongside Rooney that is 6 in 11 years. It sounds awful but compared to most Premier league manager is quite good. In a similar time span Liverpool's great academy has produced 1 or 2 players. I think this says more about the premier league than Moyes though.

The telling thing for me though is that it kind of stops post Rodwell. It leads into my point that over the course of his tenure Moyes grew more cautious. Whether this was inherent to him or as a result of the actions of Kenwright is up for debate. In the past I placed all of the blame on Kenwright which was a mistake on my part, I sense both were factors.

For Moyes what is clear now though is he seems unable to recapture the early form he had as a manager.

 

[LinekersLegs]

http://www.theguardian.com/football...h-everton-capital-one-cup-quarter-finals-draw

Middlesbrough manager Aitor Karanka says he will be happy to welcome Everton to the Riverside because Roberto Martínez gave him a lot help and “went out of his way” to make him feel welcome in England. “I owe him a lot, he has been a good friend,” said Karanka.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

Ask 30-40k fans who go each home game and the thousands who go every away game if they are bored with Martinez plan A if you like. I know what the majority would say - I should know im there most weeks.

The point you make about the first season is exactly everything im trying to get across to you. It was great to watch and it brought results - its a huge shame that we didn't get champions league football because we deserved it I thought. That season is exactly what the anti Martinez fans want, there was mistakes in that season, see palace at home for example but he was quickly forgiven by the majority because we could see the bigger picture was promising, right now and for the last 18 months it has been absolute dog turd in the main, hence the reason people are tired.
I do think we should give him until the end of the season although I admit I didn't have much patience with him for a period of last season we both know that. I can see why people are tired though, im not sure anymore if you just have a lot of patience or if your simply blind faith.
Stop having a go at people because they disagree with your opinion as strongly as you agree with the pro Martinez opinion. If you are that confident he will succeed then you should just sit back and watch him do so, if the anti Martinez are so sure then they should stand up and say so, difference being if the anti Martinez are correct then we are in a lot of trouble in losing our best young players.

 

[MikeH72]

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

Being honest, do you look at the style of football we played in the first half against Norwich and think that that's the "proper" way to play football? It's passing football, but it's dull, unimaginative and doesn't get us anywhere. We aren't playing attractive football at all, it's walking pace most of the time, like a training session. Why hasn't he got these players playing the style that he wants, after being here two years? He surely can't be impressed with what we've served up the last 4 games

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Yes Walter Smith had that school of science open for business before Moyes shut it the kill joy. Royle's team was also affectionately known as the dogs of the school of science. Who can forget Mike Walkers team, poetry in motion.

I forget though that your Everton time line looks something like 1987 - loads of bad stuff that was all Moyes' fault - Martinez the messiah can do no wrong.

I think he forgets about the sunderland 7-1 win, the great night of fiorentina at home, the 1-0 against Petersburg when you consider how that team went on to win the UEFA cup and do half decent in the champions league, the FA cup run of 2009, the solid home record over his tenure, the additions of Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Jagielka, Pienaar, Baines, Fellaini.
Some people are just gutted that we no longer have moyes defensive solidity to match martinez' attacking style WHEN IT GOES RIGHT.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

We played some very nice football at times in Moyes last season mate

Against Southampton at home in particular we played some lovely stuff

The last time we won something was Joe Royle unleashing The Dogs of War, so to say style is the most important thing is wrong IMO

We were hardly Tikki Takking in the 80's either. Sure, we played some nice stuff, but our success was based around having giant striker Andy Gray maiming Germans, Peter Reid harrying and taking names in the mid field and perhaps the best Goalkeeper of the modern era at his most incredible keeping us in games that we would have normally drawn or lost.

This myth that we have to play a certain way clouds the issue

The style is less important than the answers to these two questions;

1 - Does Roberto Martinez have the versatility of a Catterick or Kendall to balance his "stylistic vision" and the pragmatism required in order for Everton to either win a cup or make the Champions League?

and

2 - Is Roberto Martinez capable of addressing the flaws he has (Because he definitely has some) in order to achieve his potential as a manager? (Which appears to be very high indeed based on the positives he regularly shows)

 

[Saint Domingo]

Being honest, do you look at the style of football we played in the first half against Norwich and think that that's the "proper" way to play football? It's passing football, but it's dull, unimaginative and doesn't get us anywhere. We aren't playing attractive football at all, it's walking pace most of the time, like a training session. Why hasn't he got these players playing the style that he wants, after being here two years? He surely can't be impressed with what we've served up the last 4 games

Didn't see the stars but Alex Neil said his side had had 60% possession first half. That's Norwich's reserve team. We don't really dominate possession any more against anybody. We haven't had any pace to our game since 13/14 when Osman and Piebaar linked play for us. Without them the team sometimes looks like a back 6 and a front four with a huge gap inverween that can only be bridged by a long ball (we're still playing far too many of them and they're not even effective).

 

[Ihaters]

I think he forgets about the sunderland 7-1 win, the great night of fiorentina at home, the 1-0 against Petersburg when you consider how that team went on to win the UEFA cup and do half decent in the champions league, the FA cup run of 2009, the solid home record over his tenure, the additions of Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Jagielka, Pienaar, Baines, Fellaini.
Some people are just gutted that we no longer have moyes defensive solidity to match martinez' attacking style WHEN IT GOES RIGHT.

Allow me:

Sunderland 7-1 win - Sunderland capitulated, anyone could of done that
Fiorentina at home - Fiorentina away
1-0 against Petersburg - Lucky one goal win, standard Moyes result
The FA cup run of 2009 - Lets see.. United reserve team, Liverpool reserve team and lucky goal, bottled it in the only important game because the games leading up to it were not important (injuries don't factor).
Arteta - Crab
Cahill - Limited
Lescott - Overrated
Jagielka - Lucky
Pienaar - Slow
Baines - Didn't play him at first
Fellaini - Useless

In case your wondering.. Yes there is actually an excuse for everything Moyes did right.. I've heard them all..

 

[Saint Domingo]

Allow me:

Sunderland 7-1 win - Sunderland capitulated, anyone could of done that
Fiorentina at home - Fiorentina away
1-0 against Petersburg - Lucky one goal win, standard Moyes result
The FA cup run of 2009 - Lets see.. United reserve team, Liverpool reserve team and lucky goal, bottled it in the only important game because the games leading up to it were not important (injuries don't factor).
Arteta - Crab
Cahill - Limited
Lescott - Overrated
Jagielka - Lucky
Pienaar - Slow
Baines - Didn't play him at first
Fellaini - Useless

In case your wondering.. Yes there is actually an excuse for everything Moyes did right.. I've heard them all..

The best one has to be:

All of the football under Moyes was awful, all that matters is the style of the football being played

After the awful football last night: 'all that matters is the result, getting through is all that counts because we want a trophy'.

But do results count in the league? : No, top 6 is impossible so all we can expect is some decent football but the results don't matter.


So basically the results and how they were achieved were all important under Moyes, but under Martinez results don't matter, unless they're in a cup but then the style of football doesn't matter at all.

 

[Steve Wigan]

What agenda you on about lad ? I like Martinez as a person and wanted him as manager, but not going to be cultist about this and only express doubts about his tactics when he's gone.

If you really think that the tactical move against Norwich was part of a plan to permanently move Stones to full back and Gibson to centre half, your problems are more serious than was at first apparent.

 

[daz4matty]

The best one has to be:

All of the football under Moyes was awful, all that matters is the style of the football being played

After the awful football last night: 'all that matters is the result, getting through is all that counts because we want a trophy'.

But do results count in the league? : No, top 6 is impossible so all we can expect is some decent football but the results don't matter.


So basically the results and how they were achieved were all important under Moyes, but under Martinez results don't matter, unless they're in a cup but then the style of football doesn't matter at all.

Even the martinez worshippers are worried about our turgid football.
I just hope for his sake he picks joel sunday cos if not it could get ugly playing flapper

 

[ijjysmith]

Even the martinez worshippers are worried about our turgid football.
I just hope for his sake he picks joel sunday cos if not it could get ugly playing flapper

He's already said Howard is playing mate.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Even the martinez worshippers are worried about our turgid football.
I just hope for his sake he picks joel sunday cos if not it could get ugly playing flapper

He's sticking with Howard mate

It was announced earlier today

*Yay*

 

[Smodger]

Just gone back 20 pages the love Davek as for Martinez is unreal nothing can be said about Martinez.we were [Poor language removed] the other night yet that was part of martinezs plan lol your got to be kidding me.snods on the radio the other night said why are about 5 or 6 players all crouched with there hands on there knees goosed then came the bananas.