Roberto Martinez discussion

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Even though I find myself agreeing with the Anti-Martinez faction in the main, I actually love the passion and/or stubbornness from @davek my day is not complete without a little 'discussion' regarding Bobby :cheers: im sure when its all said and done we would love to all be proven right when Martinez wins the FA/League cup playing a beautiful brand of football mixed with the customary Gareth Barry yellow card in the final.
 
Saint Domingo said:
The best one has to be:

All of the football under Moyes was awful, all that matters is the style of the football being played

After the awful football last night: 'all that matters is the result, getting through is all that counts because we want a trophy'.

But do results count in the league? : No, top 6 is impossible so all we can expect is some decent football but the results don't matter.

So basically the results and how they were achieved were all important under Moyes, but under Martinez results don't matter, unless they're in a cup but then the style of football doesn't matter at all.
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At least now there are no long balls, no draws, or 1-0 wins, we have stopped the injuries as he's a physio, no supporting the board, no lying to the fans, no more last minute subs, no more favourites, no more old players, no square pegs round holes, constant use of fast wingers on the wings, just sexy, fluid, passing, winning football ... Oh hang on.. that's not quite true is it?

Tbh, I don't blame Martinez for not achieving the above, its an impossibly high stool on which certain posters have sat him, I blame the anti Moyes people for having such unrealistic expectations of what a manager does tbh.

I think he's doing a good job, but I don't think we are any better than under Moyes at current except financially. But then I thought Moyes did a good job

At least there is potential for improvement though, I think Moyes had ht his limit. But due to this expectation on Martinez, and possibly the realisation that the second coming hasn't happened, Martinez has - through no fault of his own - been lowering expectation since he got here.

How many jeers have we heard about the 5th to 8th place trophy pre Martinez?
How much love after a first season.. finishing 5th?
How accepting suddenly are certain posters of a bottom half finish.. Something Moyes should of been sacked for despite the differences in squads inherited?
How many excuses are coming now from those that used to just come up with blame?
How impressive suddenly are the same achievements Moyes was classed a failure for ?

Annoys me how black and white and hypocritical some peoples perspectives are.

Both managers had faults and qualities, many of them shared. Lets stop pretending otherwise.

Martinez firmly in still from me though.. he's not the messiah, but he has us in a quarter final and close to Europe so he's certainly not doing badly enough to merit removal imo.
 

Paul Bernard said:
Even though I find myself agreeing with the Anti-Martinez faction in the main, I actually love the passion and/or stubbornness from @davek my day is not complete without a little 'discussion' regarding Bobby :cheers: im sure when its all said and done we would love to all be proven right when Martinez wins the FA/League cup playing a beautiful brand of football mixed with the customary Gareth Barry yellow card in the final.
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this is one of my points, why does any criticism of Martinez mean they are anti-Martinez? Should he be beyond criticism because he got us a record number of points 2 years ago even tho we resemble almost nothing like that side currently?
 
Ihaters said:
At least now there are no long balls, no draws, or 1-0 wins, we have stopped the injuries as he's a physio, no supporting the board, no lying to the fans, no more last minute subs, no more favourites, no more old players, no square pegs round holes, constant use of fast wingers on the wings, just sexy, fluid, passing, winning football ... Oh hang on.. that's not quite true is it?

Tbh, I don't blame Martinez for not achieving the above, its an impossibly high stool on which certain posters have sat him, I blame the anti Moyes people for having such unrealistic expectations of what a manager does tbh.

I think he's doing a good job, but I don't think we are any better than under Moyes at current except financially. But then I thought Moyes did a good job

At least there is potential for improvement though, I think Moyes had ht his limit. But due to this expectation on Martinez, and possibly the realisation that the second coming hasn't happened, Martinez has - through no fault of his own - been lowering expectation since he got here.

How many jeers have we heard about the 5th to 8th place trophy pre Martinez?
How much love after a first season.. finishing 5th?
How accepting suddenly are certain posters of a bottom half finish.. Something Moyes should of been sacked for despite the differences in squads inherited?
How many excuses are coming now from those that used to just come up with blame?
How impressive suddenly are the same achievements Moyes was classed a failure for ?

Annoys me how black and white and hypocritical some peoples perspectives are.

Both managers had faults and qualities, many of them shared. Lets stop pretending otherwise.

Martinez firmly in still from me though.. he's not the messiah, but he has us in a quarter final and close to Europe so he's certainly not doing badly enough to merit removal imo.
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Great post.
 
riddick said:
this is one of my points, why does any criticism of Martinez mean they are anti-Martinez? Should he be beyond criticism because he got us a record number of points 2 years ago even tho we resemble almost nothing like that side currently?
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That's my point to Da-vek, to be fair a lot of people on here are pro Martinez and they just leave dave to fight the fight almost single handed, he does a good job of it too to be fair. I said earlier im agreeing with the anti-Martinez at the minute simply because the style of play has not been mixed up neither has the balance of the side, two wingers, 4-4-2 etc.... I agreed with dave that I would give him time, he has had one good, one bad season so far, the third season (this) would probably give us a idea of where we are at.
 

I would rather keep martinez because he is building a great squad and has shown he can be the man to take us to the next level at times plus we can't afford to sack him.
But he is letting himself down again with slow going nowhere football,we just look lost until we go behind.
His team selection and playing people in wrong places is crazy at times.
I so want the martinez back of his 1st season with great tempo and tactics but he is morphing into the man of last season again stubborn and clueless.
I don't get how he makes 2 step forwards then takes 2 back its so frustrating.
The next few games are so important to begin climbing the table.
 
This thread. lol

So much passion.

Sadly the Anti Martinez/Pro Moyes folks set the tone of this thread by wanting him out after three draws.

You'll have to forgive those of us who support Martinez for going a little OTT.
 
ilikecheese said:
This thread. lol

So much passion.

Sadly the Anti Martinez/Pro Moyes folks set the tone of this thread by wanting him out after three draws.

You'll have to forgive those of us who support Martinez for going a little OTT.
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Considering the first post was made within a few days of him joining (a couple of months before his first game) and is desperately downbeat about wanting Bobby here in the first place, I'd say you were a couple of years out with your 'Tone Setting'
 
Saint Domingo said:
Yes Walter Smith had that school of science open for business before Moyes shut it the kill joy. Royle's team was also affectionately known as the dogs of the school of science. Who can forget Mike Walkers team, poetry in motion.

I forget though that your Everton time line looks something like 1987 - loads of bad stuff that was all Moyes' fault - Martinez the messiah can do no wrong.
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If you think Royle's team were dogs then you need to think again. If that Bosch over there at Anfield gets them playing with half the intensity and purpose Royle's Everton played with he might be a success.

Moyes's greatest triumph was dumbing down Everton expectations to believe that football played from one end of the pitch to the other via a hoof to Cahill or Fellaini and picking up second balls was exciting. No wonder there's no patience for footy on the deck. A generation weaned on getting rid asap...with the blind hope it lands to a blue shirt. Every club he's had since Everton have seen through him within 12 months of tipping up with his museum 'football'.
 
Using a golf analogy, I'd say he's -1 for the course at the moment for this season, slightly better than par. Given I expected him to miss the cut and be sacked by now, he's doing better than expected.

The true test is the run of games we have now. We should go on a big, big run of results from now until January, as we have no opposition that we shouldn't beat until Man City in mid-January.

Going into the new year, we should be firmly in the Champions League hunt now. Anything other than being around 6th come the turn of the year should rightly be seen as a massive disappointment and a failure, given we've largely overcome what could have been a disastrous start to the season.
 

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