Roberto Martinez discussion

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Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Sorry, when did I question their credentials?

I just said their success was down to more than just playing nice football, which it was

I notice you didn't address the Moyes point, because of course you didn't

I thought you were better than the whole "I'm above debating you" tactic, but hey ho guess I was wrong
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"Our success was based around having a giant striker maiming Germans".

Yes, very nuanced.
 
davek said:
If you think Royle's team were dogs then you need to think again. If that Bosch over there at Anfield gets them playing with half the intensity and purpose Royle's Everton played with he might be a success.

Moyes's greatest triumph was dumbing down Everton expectations to believe that football played from one end of the pitch to the other via a hoof to Cahill or Fellaini and picking up second balls was exciting. No wonder there's no patience for footy on the deck. A generation weaned on getting rid asap...with the blind hope it lands to a blue shirt. Every club he's had since Everton have seen through him within 12 months of tipping up with his museum 'football'.
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Unbelievable mate, at least you're consistent. What was our highest league position under Royle? What about Walker and Smith? The sad truth is that most Evertonians seemed to be more excited by Moyes' football as in Martinez has been booed more often in 18 months than Moyes was in 11 years. Now have all 40,000 match day going Evertonians been hoodwinked? Or could it be that your assertion that we witnessed 11 years of long ball hoofing is over exaggerated?
 
i like martinez and hes better than moyes blah blah but i hate this myth that we didnt play good football under him at any point. we played a lot of good football think people are forgetting the years that pienaar and baines spent together with osman arteta etc joining in with that, it was faster paced than now but it was still good football a lot of the time.
 

mikeh72 said:


Eh look lads. It seems the great 84/85 team wasn't averse to the odd long throw every now and again. Should be ashamed of themselves. Can't believe they broke the school of science tradition like that and played such agricultural hoofball. Thank god we have Roberto to rescue us from this shameful bastardisation of the beautiful game
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I'm as disgusted as you

That entire season is now tainted

Scoring from a throw in Everton, for shame!
 
mitchell1996 said:
i like martinez and hes better than moyes blah blah but i hate this myth that we didnt play good football under him at any point. we played a lot of good football think people are forgetting the years that pienaar and baines spent together with osman arteta etc joining in with that, it was faster paced than now but it was still good football a lot of the time.
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I don't understand the stick or hate moyes gets.
He took a team walter smith had made into relegation fodder and with no money took us to the champions league.
His last season we played some entertaining high tempo football whilst winning.
He put the soul back into the club.
It was right he went when he did but don't forget what he did for this great club
 
The 80s team was all about balance. We had pace in key areas, guile on the ball in others, physical strength too. We attacked and defended as a unit and played to our strengths.

It was a well structured, pragmatic team. In short, they played good overall football, not just one style. If we had to bully sides, we did. If we had to break them down and play them off the park, we did that also.

There is no "best" way to play football - tippy tappy can be every bit as useless or effective as long ball. The key is using your personnel correctly and finding the right balance.
 

Paul Bernard said:
With all due respect you speak for nobody other than yourself too, yet you act like you represent every decent knowledgeable evertonian out there, you speak for the majority of match going fans even though the majority are visually induced into a coma at GP.

In answer to what gives me this impression is, constant favourites in the team, no balance to the team, boring football for the last 18 months in the main, fans getting tired of all the above, no training on set pieces, the worrying trend of injuries that ravage our squad at times.

I do understand that he is trying to bring a passing style to the team with a blend of youth and wisdom combined to perfection, right now though he isn't anywhere near that. Not only Bobby but it seems a lot of teams are obsessed with this Barca way of football, it is possible if you have messi, suarez, neymar, xavi, iniesta, puyol, pique, mascherano, alves, busquets, rakitic, valdes, ter stegen etc etc.......

You said last season that I should give him another season to see how he gets on, so here I am, trying to understand your way of thinking, hence why I said I would sit on the fence but im too large to do so, therefore im leaning towards the anti-Martinez side in your eyes.
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You're looking for the manager - who sees football as needing to be played in a certain way - to move toward you, who believes it should be played in another (as yet unspecified) way. That's hardly a situation where you're open minded is it? There's not a lot of persuadingro be done there.

We play with pace and get in behind teams with numbers when they want to make a game of it; and we keep possession, probing for a gap when they dont want to do that. There's not a great deal more to it than that. Put labels on it if you wish, but it looks a pretty orthodox way of playing football to me. The only criticisms that can be made of it is if the pace of our play isn't kept sufficiently high, or that we are short of one or two players who can turn the screw on compact opponents when they do sit back. But I really dont see any way I could criticise or doubt a manager who's fundamental method is to take the game to the opposition and control the ball. It's exactly what Moyes' teams were incapable of, because they were cast in his negative, risk averse likeness.
 
Tubey said:
The 80s team was all about balance. We had pace in key areas, guile on the ball in others, physical strength too. We attacked and defended as a unit and played to our strengths.

It was a well structured, pragmatic team. In short, they played good overall football, not just one style. If we had to bully sides, we did. If we had to break them down and play them off the park, we did that also.

There is no "best" way to play football - tippy tappy can be every bit as useless or effective as long ball. The key is using your personnel correctly and finding the right balance.
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football was too different back then to compare it now tbh
 
Ihaters said:
haha I'd say probably improving us from relegation battles to euro battles every season, or a cup final were probably bigger than this myth of him lowering expectations tbh.

You know how last season was acceptable to you?
yet 8th etc was not under Moyes?
Which manager has actually lowered expectations?
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Improving relegation battles by taking us to 17th in the league. Euro battles every season, but qualifying just 4 times from 11; playing in a cup final and losing it in comparison with our other longest serving managers who actually won stuff.

He kept us in the PL. That was the achievement. Then he left.

A footnote in the club's history.
 
davek said:
You're looking for the manager - who sees football as needing to be played in a certain way - to move toward you, who believes it should be played in another (as yet unspecified) way. That's hardly a situation where you're open minded is it? There's not a lot of persuadingro be done there.

We play with pace and get in behind teams with numbers when they want to make a game of it; and we keep possession, probing for a gap when they dont want to do that. There's not a great deal more to it than that. Put labels on it if you wish, but it looks a pretty orthodox way of playing football to me. The only criticisms that can be made of it is if the pace of our play isn't kept sufficiently high, or that we are short of one or two players who can turn the screw on compact opponents when they do sit back. But I really dont see any way I could criticise or doubt a manager who's fundamental method is to take the game to the opposition and control the ball. It's exactly what Moyes' teams were incapable of, because they were cast in his negative, risk averse likeness.
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But David, what do you make of the 1985 team scoring goals from long throw ins? Did you shun Howard Kendall as Tony Pulis before Pulis happened?
 

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