Roberto Martinez discussion

[toffeejack]

...maybe my viewing pleasure was compromised by that Arab bloke's commentary...lol

yeah no commentary was a hinderance, i think the french commentator livened things up near the end and it's altered my view.

 

[bicycleheader]

Now this is a more reasoned attempt at explanation, from a poster generally that likes to attack when he sees comments he disagrees with

Thats not true Changy. We obviously don´t see eye to eye but if I do actually "attack" anything it would be a certain way of posting. I have no problem just with people I disagree with. Discussion and debate is the most interesting part of the forums, apart from the many humorous posters. My comment you replied to is reasonable because I´m a reasonable person.

 

[Azza]

The first half performances need to be addressed asap. What ever we do at half time we need to do before the start of a match.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Roberto's selection was looking beyond the League Cup tie. Its obvious weakness was three players returning to first team duty.

But he did show his creativity with his substitutions, changing the front two, the midfield and the back four. And that from a man with no Plan B!

So despite extra time on Tuesday, we go into Sunday's game in reasonable order and with some confidence too.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

If we WIN but play the slow tempo, no plan B football, we are just anti Martinez plotters.
If we LOSE and have our slow tempo, no plan b football exposed, we are anti Martinez.

If we win by Martinez playing attacking, mixed tempo, balanced team football, we sing his praises until the cows come home. In the eyes of the pro Martinez we are put back in our place.

Point being is that when Martinez is forced to change things we generally do well, everyone who wished for change gets proven right, but of course to the likes of Da-vek, its just Martinez being the world class manager he is.......

Until the next game when he drops a winger to the bench and plays Naismith wide, then we are all hypocrites, anti Martinez plotters again.

Eat, Sleep, plot, repeat..............

 

[catcherintherye]

top post. nailed everything in sight.

the bit in bold is exactly why i never had a problem with him until the last few seasons. he and we got stale as a partnership and i was so glad when united came calling. Martinez is making mistakes, but is doing a lot more good than bad, most of our problems would be solved with a good keeper.

Thanks mate! I was in the pro Moyes camp, make no bones about it. I think his experiences post Everton though have had to make me and a lot of others re-evaluate him. I had always held the problems he found at Everton were mostly down to Kenwright, but as he has repeated similar mistakes at United and Sociedad that can't be entirely true.

There's little doubt though that he got increasingly bogged down and more cautious at him time at Everton though. It's no excuse though. It is very easy to bin off someone elses players. It's much harder to move on players you've bought in and grown close too.

 

[catcherintherye]

Let's face it on Rooney: how could he have not given a talent like that a game? It'd have been like trying to put cap on a volcano. The lad was outrageously precocious. And even there he wrapped him in cotton wool for far too many games.

As for breaking Smith's team up: those players were practically out of retirement as it was. There was absolutely no alternative to getting shut of them.

Well I think you would be surprised. Players like Owen, Giggs though outstanding were never played at such a tender age. I also think the idea Moyes "mis managed" Rooney is utter nonsense. He was undoubtedly the best 18 year old in world football when he left Everton after two years with Moyes. He never kicked on as he should under Ferguson and Manchester United.

Moyes was also happy to give Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Baxter opportunities when they were 16/17. By the end though he had given up.

 

[davek]

If we WIN but play the slow tempo, no plan B football, we are just anti Martinez plotters.
If we LOSE and have our slow tempo, no plan b football exposed, we are anti Martinez.

If we win by Martinez playing attacking, mixed tempo, balanced team football, we sing his praises until the cows come home. In the eyes of the pro Martinez we are put back in our place.

Point being is that when Martinez is forced to change things we generally do well, everyone who wished for change gets proven right, but of course to the likes of Da-vek, its just Martinez being the world class manager he is.......

Until the next game when he drops a winger to the bench and plays Naismith wide, then we are all hypocrites, anti Martinez plotters again.

Eat, Sleep, plot, repeat..............

That's adding a level of thought and consideration that just doesn't exist for most of RMs detractors. Win, lose or draw, playing good football, bad football or indifferent football it doesn't matter. There's always going to be opposition to him by a handful of people who have made it their life's work to oppose his presence at the club.

It's a shame for themselves really. It must be pretty alienating having to hope their own team gets beat every game so that they get their wish to unseat the manager and have some up and under Tony Pulis type come in and replace him. It hardly seems worth all the agitation, but they seem to get some perverse buzz out of the project. I cant fathom it myself.

 

[davek]

Well I think you would be surprised. Players like Owen, Giggs though outstanding were never played at such a tender age. I also think the idea Moyes "mis managed" Rooney is utter nonsense. He was undoubtedly the best 18 year old in world football when he left Everton after two years with Moyes. He never kicked on as he should under Ferguson and Manchester United.

Moyes was also happy to give Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Baxter opportunities when they were 16/17. By the end though he had given up.

Moyes had no need to manage Rooney. No manager has ever needed to do that. Rooney's emergence into the first team just coincided with Moyes tenure.

As for his general success rate at bringing younger players on, it was terrible for someone here 11 years. Rodwell, Anichebe and Vaughan were the only ones to get a career at Everton.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

That's adding a level of thought and consideration that just doesn't exist for most of RMs detractors. Win, lose or draw, playing good football, bad football or indifferent football it doesn't matter. There's always going to be opposition to him by a handful of people who have made it their life's work to oppose his presence at the club.

It's a shame for themselves really. It must be pretty alienating having to hope their own team gets beat every game so that they get their wish to unseat the manager and have some up and under Tony Pulis type come in and replace him. It hardly seems worth all the agitation, but they seem to get some perverse buzz out of the project. I cant fathom it myself.

I do agree that there are a lot of people who want Martinez gone because of his boring style of play. That does not mean they want him to fail, they most certainly don't want Everton to fail - that is just plain stupid, you make that comment just to make them look fools because they don't agree with your side of the pro/anti debate which has come about on here. Everybody pro/anti Martinez just want to see him get the best out of the squad at his disposal. If he cannot do that then he should walk. If there is no progress or the bigger picture doesn't look great then they have the right to oppose him. Martinez was brought in to bring a attractive style of play that could hopefully get us top 4 football, so far he has failed at that, therefore they have been proven right more than you have - he had a objective and he has failed so far.

Seeing him bring in some youth such as stones, Barkley, Galloway, garbutt (to a degree) McCarthy and Romelu looks promising for the future, right now though he is not getting the best out of the team in the short term. There is no point looking at building to the future if you sell the future today/tomorrow. Romelu for example has bought into Martinez and his future, right now though he isn't using Romelu to his maximum potential, so if he gets fed up and leaves tomorrow then the future plans are kind of pointless, or certainly taken two steps back.

As I have said many times I admire/understand that you just want to give the bloke a chance but to say people want him/Everton to fail is absolute madness. Once again I emphasise that I don't want him gone but if he keeps this boring/inconsistent style of play with his favourites then he must go. Im sure I speak on behalf of the majority of Anti Martinez plotters in this case. I would sit on the fence but my rear end is too heavy to do such tricks.

 

[Fletch]

It seems the politics of football and indeed the pressure of not falling outside the Top half of the table means Martinez has gone from a manager who promised Champions League football at his inaugral press conference ti a guy who is now afraid to try anything and go's for the safe option on his team sheet.
In recent years, not withstanding the days of Mike Walker and Walter Smith Tuesday nights game, which I sacrificed a lot to get to was by far the worst display of football I have ever seen from Everton. What did we work on during the days prior, what actually was the game plan ?

Why could we not string 3 passes together ? It was unbelievably bad and it started with Roberto chossing the wrong team.

 

[Lanolin]

That's adding a level of thought and consideration that just doesn't exist for most of RMs detractors. Win, lose or draw, playing good football, bad football or indifferent football it doesn't matter. There's always going to be opposition to him by a handful of people who have made it their life's work to oppose his presence at the club.

It's a shame for themselves really. It must be pretty alienating having to hope their own team gets beat every game so that they get their wish to unseat the manager and have some up and under Tony Pulis type come in and replace him. It hardly seems worth all the agitation, but they seem to get some perverse buzz out of the project. I cant fathom it myself.

See, the key to being a top class WUM is not being quite so obvious about your goading. I'm afraid you're trying a little bit too hard this week. Maybe have a rest, come back stronger.

 

[davek]

I do agree that there are a lot of people who want Martinez gone because of his boring style of play. That does not mean they want him to fail, they most certainly don't want Everton to fail - that is just plain stupid, you make that comment just to make them look fools because they don't agree with your side of the pro/anti debate which has come about on here. Everybody pro/anti Martinez just want to see him get the best out of the squad at his disposal. If he cannot do that then he should walk. If there is no progress or the bigger picture doesn't look great then they have the right to oppose him. Martinez was brought in to bring a attractive style of play that could hopefully get us top 4 football, so far he has failed at that, therefore they have been proven right more than you have - he had a objective and he has failed so far.

Seeing him bring in some youth such as stones, Barkley, Galloway, garbutt (to a degree) McCarthy and Romelu looks promising for the future, right now though he is not getting the best out of the team in the short term. There is no point looking at building to the future if you sell the future today/tomorrow. Romelu for example has bought into Martinez and his future, right now though he isn't using Romelu to his maximum potential, so if he gets fed up and leaves tomorrow then the future plans are kind of pointless, or certainly taken two steps back.

As I have said many times I admire/understand that you just want to give the bloke a chance but to say people want him/Everton to fail is absolute madness. Once again I emphasise that I don't want him gone but if he keeps this boring/inconsistent style of play with his favourites then he must go. Im sure I speak on behalf of the majority of Anti Martinez plotters in this case. I would sit on the fence but my rear end is too heavy to do such tricks.

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

 

[davek]

See, the key to being a top class WUM is not being quite so obvious about your goading. I'm afraid you're trying a little bit too hard this week. Maybe have a rest, come back stronger.

How would you know? You've only just started posting here.

 

[efcfanwirral]

It's called football played on the deck, not 'boring'. Are you bored when the team annihilates any opposition team that want to come out and play with fast counter attacking football; was getting 72 points and 23 wins in his first season here 'boring'?

What Martinez had to contend with on his arrival at Everton was the bastardisation of the club's football culture - a club that had always been based on passing, scientific football but which had lost that identity under the agricultural style of Moyes. It's a re-education process that needs to happen to take kicking and screaming the bulk of blues into the 21st century and back to their own roots. His appointement has been a massively important one in a historical sense. A line drawn in the sand and a firm commitment to get back on track to the club we once were and playing the football we were once noted for.

Failed my arse.

Pretty much sums it up for me. My only real issue with him is this weird situation where we only start properly attacking when we go 1-0 down, but I'm sure that'll get sorted at some point!