Roberto Martinez discussion

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Tubey said:
You're asking "who would be better?" - the answer is "there's absolutely no way of telling".

There was no way of knowing a manager from the Championship managing Preston would be better than a well respected title winning manager named Walter Smith.

Similarly, there was no way of knowing a manager who led a team into the Second Division with Blackburn and had hardly any managerial experience would be better than a man who had been managing Everton for over 200 games. But Howard Kendall did indeed turn out to be a step up from Gordon Lee.
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Ok. Now I'm asking who would be realistic possibilities should Martinez go for whatever reason?

Because I don't see many good ones.

By your logic Tim Sherwood might be good here. Because we just don't know how he'll get on here.
 

ijjysmith said:
Ok. Now I'm asking who would be realistic possibilities should Martinez go for whatever reason?

Because I don't see many good ones.

By your logic Tim Sherwood might be good here. Because we just don't know how he'll get on here.
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That's exactly my logic, yes. Obviously people will have their opinions on whether he would be or not (I think he'd be a disaster obviously), but I couldn't definitively say he would be, simply because I can't evaluate him in the job.

Let me put it this way - the likes of Martinez, Klopp, Van Gaal, even Alex Ferguson - they all come from somewhere lesser than they ended up. You never know who can step up; the current Barnsley manager could turn out to be the next Howard Kendall at Everton, you just never know.

So when you ask people to name names, it's a pointless exercise. It's not like assessing players - we know for certain a winger at Aldershot is incredibly unlikely to hack it at this level, because playing football is a physical skill and he's unlikely to possess the required level. But management is a mental skill; the only way you know whether someone is fantastic or not is if and when they're given the chance in the role.
 

mkrudden said:
Moyes offered security. Security that we'd finish in certain parameters of the league, winning nothing but always maintaining respectability. We were risk averse throughout the club. Plucky Everton. Out tactics were built on the opposition having the ball, keeping tight and eeking out a 1-0.

Martinez has asked us to take responsibility. To take the game to the opposition by having possession and trying to break teams down. The highs will be high but whilst relying on the inexperience and inconsistency of youth, the lows may be lower that that under moyes. He needs money and time, both transfer windows and time to develop the gifted youngsters he is integrating.
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You can't have been watching Everton recently then. The tactics which you attribute to our previous manager are exactly the ones being employed now by our present manager. In fact they are even worse, as we wait for the opposition to score first before trying to equalise, never mind nick a 1-0.

As for taking the game to the opposition, what I witnessed at GP on Tuesday night was the very antithesis of that claim. We couldn't even win a corner until about the 65 minute ffs. It was nothing short of embarrassing to see an Everton team be as cowardly at that.
 
Tubey said:
That's exactly my logic, yes. Obviously people will have their opinions on whether he would be or not (I think he'd be a disaster obviously), but I couldn't definitively say he would be, simply because I can't evaluate him in the job.

Let me put it this way - the likes of Martinez, Klopp, Van Gaal, even Alex Ferguson - they all come from somewhere lesser than they ended up. You never know who can step up; the current Barnsley manager could turn out to be the next Howard Kendall at Everton, you just never know.

So when you ask people to name names, it's a pointless exercise. It's not like assessing players - we know for certain a winger at Aldershot is incredibly unlikely to hack it at this level, because playing football is a physical skill and he's unlikely to possess the required level. But management is a mental skill; the only way you know whether someone is fantastic or not is if and when they're given the chance in the role.
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Eff it. I'm applying next time. And you're being my reference. All you need to write in it is 'you don't know if he will be good or not, there's literally no way to - go on give him a go'.

Gonna be boss this.
 
The Equaliser said:
You can't have been watching Everton recently then. The tactics which you attribute to our previous manager are exactly the ones being employed now by our present manager. In fact they are even worse, as we wait for the opposition to score first before trying to equalise, never mind nick a 1-0.

As for taking the game to the opposition, what I witnessed at GP on Tuesday night was the very antithesis of that claim. We couldn't even win a corner until about the 65 minute ffs. It was nothing short of embarrassing to see an Everton team be as cowardly at that.
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Tuesday was not very good, that is for sure. Other than the (undeserved?) result.
 
Last year I wanted Martinez out this season I don't but I want him massively to improve on his faults because I feel like he has massively regressed since his first season.

He has a lot of faults that I'd like for him to improve on
 

ijjysmith said:
Eff it. I'm applying next time. And you're being my reference. All you need to write in it is 'you don't know if he will be good or not, there's literally no way to - go on give him a go'.

Gonna be boss this.
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Hahaha obviously like any job, you need some sort of CV to apply for it!

All I'm saying is you can't rule anybody out. Aitor Karanka, Derek McInnes or Sean Dyche could go on to be absolutely superb, and if that sounds laughable to you, you would have been laughing at Roberto Martinez at Wigan or David Moyes at Preston or Alex Ferguson at Aberdeen.
 
Tubey said:
Hahaha obviously like any job, you need some sort of CV to apply for it!

All I'm saying is you can't rule anybody out. Aitor Karanka, Derek McInnes or Sean Dyche could go on to be absolutely superb, and if that sounds laughable to you, you would have been laughing at Roberto Martinez at Wigan or David Moyes at Preston or Alex Ferguson at Aberdeen.
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I do of course get what you're saying.

But I'd still like a list of realistic possibles to replace Martinez (if needed). And nobody has come up with any names.

(I quite like that Karanka chap by the way)
 
The Equaliser said:
You can't have been watching Everton recently then. The tactics which you attribute to our previous manager are exactly the ones being employed now by our present manager. In fact they are even worse, as we wait for the opposition to score first before trying to equalise, never mind nick a 1-0.

As for taking the game to the opposition, what I witnessed at GP on Tuesday night was the very antithesis of that claim. We couldn't even win a corner until about the 65 minute ffs. It was nothing short of embarrassing to see an Everton team be as cowardly at that.
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Absolutely not.
Firstly under Moyes we werent a counter attacking outfit, we were all about set pieces, crosses into the box - usually from Baines, teed up by Pienaar etc. Every opposition was given the bulk of the possession because of the mind set of the manager.

Martinez's first season is what he is aiming for. I totally agree that we aren't hitting those heights at the moment but for me the key is that it's quite clear what he's striving for - a young, dynamic, possession based, counter-attacking side. To me, certainly a Moyes fan whilst he was with us, is far more impressive and exciting than anything our former manager was formulating over 11 years.

Man Utd, although in a more 442 formation, is what Martinez is aiming for. A team who can take the game to more inferior opponents whilst having the ability to stay tight, compact and counter attack the better sides.

I totally admit he's not there yet. But it is formulating.

I agree we've been counter attacking a lot this season, look at our opening games.
Norwich isn't a good guage mate, he took a huge gamble playing so many players needing minutes and fitness.
 
Personally I like the styles of a few managers


Villas boas, De boer, Howe.

Whether or not I'd want them to replace Martinez right now is a different matter but you never now how a manager will turn out like tubey said you only have indicators.

Personally thing villas boas would be a good fit when we do need a new manager but even he has his faults obviously
 

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