Roberto Martinez discussion

[ijjysmith]

Personally I like the styles of a few managers


Villas boas, De boer, Howe.

Whether or not I'd want them to replace Martinez right now is a different matter but you never now how a manager will turn out like tubey said you only have indicators.

Personally thing villas boas would be a good fit when we do need a new manager but even he has his faults obviously

Now there's seemingly 3 possibles. Thanks mate.

Obviously there would be a risk, just as there was with Martinez, just as there was with Kendall and there was with Catterick!

I was just curious on who was about. Howe intrigues me. Would be a bloody massive risk though I guess.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I do of course get what you're saying.

But I'd still like a list of realistic possibles to replace Martinez (if needed). And nobody has come up with any names.

(I quite like that Karanka chap by the way)

Am I invisible here ffs!!...

 

[The Equaliser]

Every opposition was given the bulk of the possession because of the mind set of the manager.

I seem to remember that one of most common complaints against him was that we were dominating possession against teams but lacked the guile to break them down in the final third. Very similar to what happens now actually. But if you want to re-write history that's up to you.

 

[MACCA75]

Absolutely not.
Firstly under Moyes we werent a counter attacking outfit, we were all about set pieces, crosses into the box - usually from Baines, teed up by Pienaar etc. Every opposition was given the bulk of the possession because of the mind set of the manager.

Martinez's first season is what he is aiming for. I totally agree that we aren't hitting those heights at the moment but for me the key is that it's quite clear what he's striving for - a young, dynamic, possession based, counter-attacking side. To me, certainly a Moyes fan whilst he was with us, is far more impressive and exciting than anything our former manager was formulating over 11 years.

Man Utd, although in a more 442 formation, is what Martinez is aiming for. A team who can take the game to more inferior opponents whilst having the ability to stay tight, compact and counter attack the better sides.

I totally admit he's not there yet. But it is formulating.

I agree we've been counter attacking a lot this season, look at our opening games.
Norwich isn't a good guage mate, he took a huge gamble playing so many players needing minutes and fitness.

Moyes last season we averaged over 52% posession. How does that translate into 'every opposition was given the bulk of the posession'?

 

[ijjysmith]

Am I invisible here ffs!!...

I've got you on ignore

(I haven't really)

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I've got you on ignore

(I haven't really)

It's for the best.

 

[daz4matty]

Am I invisible here ffs!!...

You may as well be for all the tripe you spout little duggie

 

[The Equaliser]

Knowing Howard, he'll probably have his one good game of the month on Sunday and Martinez will come out of it smelling like a rose

Howard was excellent against Southampton and Spurs this season, and absolutely wretched in other matches

That being said, Robles shipped 3 to Barnsley FFS

I would pick Robles, just because he's coming off a great performance, his spirits will be high and maybe this could be the kick up the bum Howard needs?

However, @davek made a good point that if Howard hasn't lost the dressing room yet, it could cause a rift if Martinez discards him now. Maybe Howard needs to have another stinker so that Martinez has justification to drop him?

I would still go with Robles and maybe pull Howard to one side and say that the story to the press would be that he'd had a knock in training, so as not to make it look like he'd been dropped and also make it clear that he could still easily turn things around if his keeping improved

Meanwhile, Robles gets a bit of a run and a chance to build some momentum

It's a tough decision dropping a keeper Mikey but he needs to be brave and do it, and then given Robles a few games. Especially as it was Robles' performance which got us through to the next round (with a little help from the Gwladys St of course).

"Will he have the balls to do it ?" seemed to be the question in the pub afterwards. He has a chance to show his authority here and really should take it, even if it ends up with Howard getting the jersey back eventually.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Moyes last season we averaged over 52% posession. How does that translate into 'every opposition was given the bulk of the posession'?

Yeah Baines and Pienaar were continually lauded for their ability to chase long diagonals. Gary Neville said he had to retire because, whilst he was enjoying the majority of possession, he just couldn't deal with Pienaar and Baines' physicality and how they chased the high ball with their mentality of not losing. Or did he say something else?

 

[The Equaliser]

See, this is the problem to me. There shouldn't be people pro- or anti-Martinez; it should just be basing opinion on what they are presented with, rather than going totally davek and pre-determining your opinion no matter what.

That is what causes most of the angst on here. There's a middle ground - you can say when the manager does things well, and you can also say when he apparently screws up, and come to a balanced overall judgement on performance rather than the character himself.

Best post in this thread.

 

[blulouie]

It's a tough decision dropping a keeper Mikey but he needs to be brave and do it, and then given Roble a few games. Especially as it was Robles' performance which got us through to the next round (with a little help from the Gwladys St of course).

"Will he have the balls to do it ?" seemed to be the question in the pub afterwards. He has a chance to show his authority here and really should take it, even if it ends up with Howard getting the jersey back eventually.

Really good points there, better keepers have been dropped than Tim Howard when playing particularly bad.
De Gea, Mignolet & Courtois in the last couple of years have been "taken out the firing line" same should apply here.

 

[The Equaliser]

Really good points there, better keepers have been dropped than Tim Howard when playing particularly bad.
De Gea, Mignolet & Courtois in the last couple of years have been "taken out the firing line" same should apply here.

Not forgetting Joe Hart, which was a brave decision by Pellegrini but worked at treat.

 

[blulouie]

Not forgetting Joe Hart, which was a brave decision by Pellegrini but worked at treat.

Yep...spot on mate.

 

[WarringtonBlue]

Bit ugly this thread.

There seems to be a dichotomy here building that doesn't actually exist. The ultra-cautious, prgamatic, sensible, stable Moyes against the wildcard Martinez. Moyes' teams at time played with flair and Martinez has been pragmatic at times.

Moyes left Martinez an aging squad, but he left a squad that had gelled together and knew how each other worked. Martinez kept the back 5 and wingers (we normally had Pienaar and Mirallas in the first season) but since then we've had to make a lot of transition.

It's clear Martinez is trying to build a solid spine of youth in the team, To encourage a certain style of playing out the back, to control tempo and possession. It's something that's not fully developed but you can see youth coming through and growing in confidence game to game because of that freedom to occassionally make error. That wouldn''t have happened previously. It's clear he has a vision and these things take a while to bear fruit but can be very rewarding.

Is everything in the games perfect? No. But I do not think an admittedly average performance in the League Cup is cue to give it all up. Every side suffers spells of poor form and play. And Martinez has learned, and this is important, the league has moved on. Martinez's style was great in the first season but other teams have adapted. Counter-attacking is far more popular, and Martinez has learned, painfully what happens when you play to open. It seems a lot of posters want us to go out with two blistering wingers each week, but will then castigate him for defensive mistakes when that happens. It doesn't all work at once and a balance has to be found. Sides like West Ham can buy players like Payet who played for Olympic Marseille! There is neither the value in the market that was available when Moyes was working his transfer magic but the mid-table has grown far more competitive. These are not excuses but it's a hugely changed landscape to even 5 years ago and must inform our view.

The main process is to make the team cohere more in transition from defence to attack which I think is beginning to happen and more authority in the air defensively and in the box. I'm not happy with Howard.... at all but I can understand Martinez's viewpoint of not dropping the keeper after a tough run of games, even if I don't agree with it. With our squad depth, we now need to work out our best squad and look at adapting it now. Hopefully we will see a very good side, and a very good squad, come fully out of that transitive stage through the season

Re: new managers I'd only take a definite upgrade i.e. one that has a history of getting teams up through the league AND playing European football. Managers like Koeman do not fit that category

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I seem to remember that one of most common complaints against him was that we were dominating possession against teams but lacked the guile to break them down in the final third. Very similar to what happens now actually. But if you want to re-write history that's up to you.

My fave bit was this :

I totally agree that we aren't hitting those heights at the moment but for me the key is that it's quite clear what he's striving for - a young, dynamic, possession based, counter-attacking side.

Me thinks he's confusing himself now trying to copy dave.

No hang on, i've figured it out. We have the majority of posession where we pass the ball around aimlessly whilst the opposition have a cup of tea, then when we give it away and they score we counter going behind by attacking to try and get back into the game.