Roberto Martinez discussion

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catcherintherye said:
The reality is the defence is currently weaker. But he had a defence that Distin was past it, Howard is now past it, while Baines and Coleman have been injured. He has been putting a very young defence out alongside an experienced keeper who is a bit of a liability (though who actually had a good game on Saturday). Moyes's defence was strong but it was always going to need replacing.

I think Martinez can pick a defender out very well. He saw something in Stones Moyes didn't. Likewise Mori looks a good buy, and Galloway/Browning look brilliant finds from obscurity. Whether that eye for a defender can lead to watertight defences that are well organised I am not sure.

We were linked with a German defender in the Echo yesterday. 6 ft 6 and an absolute destroyer. I really hope we can make this happen. It's not going to be popular but I think if Stones moved on for 40 million and we could a really dominant tall centre back we'd look a lot more solid for it.

I have little doubt Stones will go on to be a top centre half. I think for us in the here and now it would;t be the end of the world if he went.
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Let's not forget though that Martinez had a great first season built on a better defensive record than Moyes ever produced.

As you say, it's been gutted now and rebuilt. Impressively so I'd say.
 

davek said:
Let's not forget though that Martinez had a great first season built on a better defensive record than Moyes ever produced.

As you say, it's been gutted now and rebuilt. Impressively so I'd say.
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You sure? I may be going mad, but Martinez first season came at 39 conceded, less than the 3 seasons between 2006 and 2009..

Season P W D L GF GA W D L GF GA GD Pts Pos
2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th
2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th
2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th
2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th
2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th ..... 36 conceded
2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th .... 33 conceded
2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th .... .. 37 conceded
2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th
2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th
2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th
2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th
2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th ..... 39 conceded
2014-15 38 7 7 5 27 21 5 4 10 21 29 -2 47 11th

Its 2015 now though and we have conceded 15 in 11 games.. that's not defensive improvement thats on course for 60 goals conceded.
Oh and 50 last season... Moyes did worse than that once in his time there... coincidentally in his second season.. Lets hope for something like Moyes third season for Martinez.
 
6th - 8th - who cares? Neither of those positions get us silverware.

Yes 6th is better than 8th, but functionally only because of prize money (and the possibility of European places falling down to 6th). I'd rather we win a cup and finish 10th than finish 6th.

Everton's descending goals should be:
Win the League (unrealistic)
Finish top 4 (slightly more realistic, but not regularly)
Win a Cup.
Finish as high as possible not top 4.

Moyes finishing 6th regularly and Martinez finishing 8th regularly? Meh, both of those miss the important goals. Both are, in a sense, failures. It really doesn't matter who finishes higher it's just asking who failed less badly.

I have hopes Martinez will take us to one or more of the real goals, while accepting that regular CL football is out of our financial reach at current time. And winning the League would require us to unearth a world class player and have everything fall our way AND not have a player slip at a crucial moment.
 
catcherintherye said:
The reality is the defence is currently weaker. But he had a defence that Distin was past it, Howard is now past it, while Baines and Coleman have been injured. He has been putting a very young defence out alongside an experienced keeper who is a bit of a liability (though who actually had a good game on Saturday). Moyes's defence was strong but it was always going to need replacing.

I think Martinez can pick a defender out very well. He saw something in Stones Moyes didn't. Likewise Mori looks a good buy, and Galloway/Browning look brilliant finds from obscurity. Whether that eye for a defender can lead to watertight defences that are well organised I am not sure.

We were linked with a German defender in the Echo yesterday. 6 ft 6 and an absolute destroyer. I really hope we can make this happen. It's not going to be popular but I think if Stones moved on for 40 million and we could a really dominant tall centre back we'd look a lot more solid for it.

I have little doubt Stones will go on to be a top centre half. I think for us in the here and now it would;t be the end of the world if he went.
Click to expand...

Come on mate. Moyes signed Stones, I'm not sure how that can be a point scored for Martinez.
 

catcherintherye said:
The reality is the defence is currently weaker. But he had a defence that Distin was past it, Howard is now past it, while Baines and Coleman have been injured. He has been putting a very young defence out alongside an experienced keeper who is a bit of a liability (though who actually had a good game on Saturday). Moyes's defence was strong but it was always going to need replacing.

I think Martinez can pick a defender out very well. He saw something in Stones Moyes didn't. Likewise Mori looks a good buy, and Galloway/Browning look brilliant finds from obscurity. Whether that eye for a defender can lead to watertight defences that are well organised I am not sure.

We were linked with a German defender in the Echo yesterday. 6 ft 6 and an absolute destroyer. I really hope we can make this happen. It's not going to be popular but I think if Stones moved on for 40 million and we could a really dominant tall centre back we'd look a lot more solid for it.

I have little doubt Stones will go on to be a top centre half. I think for us in the here and now it would;t be the end of the world if he went.
Click to expand...
Ehmm.. Moyes bought Stones..?
 
RaleighBlue said:
6th - 8th - who cares? Neither of those positions get us silverware.

Yes 6th is better than 8th, but functionally only because of prize money (and the possibility of European places falling down to 6th). I'd rather we win a cup and finish 10th than finish 6th.

Everton's descending goals should be:
Win the League (unrealistic)
Finish top 4 (slightly more realistic, but not regularly)
Win a Cup.
Finish as high as possible not top 4.

Moyes finishing 6th regularly and Martinez finishing 8th regularly? Meh, both of those miss the important goals. Both are, in a sense, failures. It really doesn't matter who finishes higher it's just asking who failed less badly.

I have hopes Martinez will take us to one or more of the real goals, while accepting that regular CL football is out of our financial reach at current time. And winning the League would require us to unearth a world class player and have everything fall our way AND not have a player slip at a crucial moment.
Click to expand...
Put league position this way then, every 2 spots gives us extra money to try to get the next Stones.
 
Ihaters said:
You sure? I may be going mad, but Martinez first season came at 39 conceded, less than the 3 seasons between 2006 and 2009..

Season P W D L GF GA W D L GF GA GD Pts Pos
2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th
2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th
2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th
2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th
2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th ..... 36 conceded
2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th .... 33 conceded
2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th .... .. 37 conceded
2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th
2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th
2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th
2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th
2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th ..... 39 conceded
2014-15 38 7 7 5 27 21 5 4 10 21 29 -2 47 11th

Its 2015 now though and we have conceded 15 in 11 games.. that's not defensive improvement thats on course for 60 goals conceded.
Oh and 50 last season... Moyes did worse than that once in his time there... coincidentally in his second season.. Lets hope for something like Moyes third season for Martinez.
Click to expand...
I meant losses, but even there I see Im wrong!
 


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