Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

 

Roberto Martinez discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Like when? Which of our next 11 games have nothing riding on them?

i'm saying in theory. if we have 3 games to go and we're stuck in 7th place however we do, we could bag 9 points and beat our record points total and it wouldn't mean a thing. Certainly wouldn't be a 'better' performance than when we bagged 60 points and qualified for Champs League.
 
If we finish with our largest ever point total in the 3 points for a win and 38 games era and also finish 7th then that's just an awful league with 13 terrible teams in it.

I don't think we will. I imagine that points total will get us 5th and thus we'd have had a good league season and be in europe.

But points totals aren't formed in a vacumn.
 
6 points from the Welsh
3 points from the toon and Fulham
4 points from Arse, Sunderland and Palace
3 points from Utd and Southampton
3 points from City and Ull

EASY.

Agree with most of that. Possibly squeeze a couple more points out of Sunderland and Palace though.

I'm confident that these players are used to finishing strong and will do so again.
 

i'm saying in theory. if we have 3 games to go and we're stuck in 7th place however we do, we could bag 9 points and beat our record points total and it wouldn't mean a thing. Certainly wouldn't be a 'better' performance than when we bagged 60 points and qualified for Champs League.
Well, you could argue it's a better performance, but a worse result. Everton can only hold destiny on it's own performance. It's final table standing depends on the relative performance of other team.
 
Well, you could argue it's a better performance, but a worse result. Everton can only hold destiny on it's own performance. It's final table standing depends on the relative performance of other team.

Well yes and no, the more results you pick up against your peers will possibly determine your final postion.

See Chelsea and City.
 
Well, you could argue it's a better performance, but a worse result. Everton can only hold destiny on it's own performance. It's final table standing depends on the relative performance of other team.

But surely if 7 teams get 70 points than that's a league with 13 crap teams in it. Where as if no team gets 70 points, it's a really tough league.

The relative performances of other teams depends on the overall strength of the league. As does our points total.
 
I appreciate all the counter points guys. One size certainly doesn't fit all when one is trying to correlate performance with result (ie table standing). Suffice to say there are a lot of moving parts about the place!.
 

These are two different things.
Its entirely possible to be completely pro Martinez, and not think Moyes was s**t. Its weird you can't see it.

If someone says they are thinking that, they are probably telling the truth, otherwise why would they bother saying it?

But I can see it, what you cannot see is this is incidental a complete red herring as to why some are gleefully getting into our manager despite his excellent start and short tenure of just over half a season.

It is NOT about liking Moyes or Martinez - it is about desperately trying to save face over the eternal Moyes arguments no one cares whether people like Moyes or Martinez it is a given that this will be the case it is the resolution of the long standing argument against their view some cannot deal with.

As we stand today Martinez audacious transfer moves, pre season success and general improvement all round comes down loud and clear in favour of one side of the argument the counter balance should have been Moyes success at OT as every oft repeated excuse was removed.

But he has been an unmitigated disaster you would have made a fortune betting on the reigning champions, the overwhelming force of the Premiership years finishing not only trophy-less but not even in the top 4. Add in the ignominy of the crap transfer window and abject surrenders at OT and beyond and there is simply no case - Moyes is at best a mid table dweller.

A lot have accepted it and moved on others are squirming and the worse thing is I don't think they even know.
 
also we definately have a better squad than last season only player we lost is felli yet we added so many
We've lost more than you would think at first glance - heres who has left with the number of league minutes they had last season

fellaini 2785
Neville 1553
Anichebe 1715
Hitzlesperger 349

Jelavic 2429
Heitinga 1603

We have also effectively lost gibson who played 1806 minutes last season compared to 27 this.
Other than Osman, we have replaced our entire central midfield.

Surely the fact that even you, who is sceptical of Martinez, agrees that the squad is much stronger this year both in quality and depth than last year is a point in Martinez's favour?
 
In a nutshell, Ian's point was that Everton have a better team this year and so we should do better than 6th. I believe it has, at a minimum, been pointed out that things are not so black and white as that.
 
But I can see it, what you cannot see is this is incidental a complete red herring as to why some are gleefully getting into our manager despite his excellent start and short tenure of just over half a season.

It is NOT about liking Moyes or Martinez - it is about desperately trying to save face over the eternal Moyes arguments no one cares whether people like Moyes or Martinez it is a given that this will be the case it is the resolution of the long standing argument against their view some cannot deal with.

As we stand today Martinez audacious transfer moves, pre season success and general improvement all round comes down loud and clear in favour of one side of the argument the counter balance should have been Moyes success at OT as every oft repeated excuse was removed.

But he has been an unmitigated disaster you would have made a fortune betting on the reigning champions, the overwhelming force of the Premiership years finishing not only trophy-less but not even in the top 4. Add in the ignominy of the crap transfer window and abject surrenders at OT and beyond and there is simply no case - Moyes is at best a mid table dweller.

A lot have accepted it and moved on others are squirming and the worse thing is I don't think they even know.

Its not me that's blind, its you that's seeing things that are not there.

No one is squirming, and your wild accusations that that Everton fans want Everton to do poorly, just to keep face over their opinions of a previous manager, emphasizes to me just how far your reaching for anything to have a pop at Moyes and his defenders.

You say people are squirming because Martinez is doing well and Moyes isn't, which is fine, except in the same way that Martinez cannot effect what Moyes did for us, neither can Moyes now.
How Martinez does for us, and how Moyes does for United is utterly irrelevant to what he did here... If he got United relegated to division 2 after spending 5 billion pounds, it really doesn't effect whether he did well for us at all does it? no one is squirming over our ex managers new job as much as you would like it to be true.

Now I put it to you that its the people who are saying, look I'm not down on Martinez, but I hope he changes x that are being realistic, yet those who, whilst seeing us a place lower in table than this time last year, and after slating every aspect of the previous manager, including claiming Moyes was average or worse in the transfer market, come out with terminology like 'Martinez's audacious transfer moves' are in fact being openly biased and hypocritical..

In fact I love this bit all round...

As we stand today Martinez audacious transfer moves, pre season success and general improvement all round comes down loud and clear in favour of one side of the argument

Actually how much further up the league to last year do you think we are? I would assume we are at least five or six places higher reading that, we are actually one lower.

Oh and I still think Martinez is ace by the way, just to really annoy you. I just think you may need to take a step back from your hatred of the previous guy and gets some objectivity.

He's done well, very well, but he's still only likely to finish around a Moyes type position. I think his transfer activity, pre season success and general improvement puts him roughly equal to Moyes myself.
 
Last edited:
Football is a game for the best players. Everton aren't able to attract the best unless we spot them early....

We are not now, or in the foreseeable future, genuine favourites for the top 4 places in this league
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Back
Top