Roberto Martinez discussion

[deipnosophist]

Football is a game for the best players. Everton aren't able to attract the best unless we spot them early....

We are not now, or in the foreseeable future, genuine favourites for the top 4 places in this league

I don't believe anyone thinks we're 'favourites'. But a lot of us believe we can be contenders. A supporter's hope should exceed his grasp else what's his support all about?

 

[nigelcoyb]

.
You say people are squirming because Martinez is doing well and Moyes isn't, which is fine, except in the same way that Martinez cannot effect what Moyes did for us, neither can Moyes now.

So why don't you and similar minded just leave it alone?

As a critic of Moyes I feel complete justification in trumpeting the improvement under Martinez and give out to Moyes because this was possible all along. He was dossing here half hearted going through the motions with an attitude we should be grateful for his presence - bang wrong that and it showed on the pitch.

If you want to justify the pro Moyes stand point by all means continue but don't be surprised when people respond, knock it down and give you some home truths ie if winning nothing, playing mostly cack football, choking the big games is your idea of a successful EFC it's not ours.

Remember if his tenure was so fantastic why on earth did so many turn against him?

Complete nonsense saying people are "biased" when putting forward their point of view it's the oddest thing I've read for a long time and as for being a hypocrite how can you be a hypocrite if consistent?

You wrote this:

"He's done well, very well, but he's still only likely to finish around a Moyes type position. I think his transfer activity, pre season success and general improvement puts him roughly equal to Moyes myself"

The desire to defend Moyes even when congratulating Martinez is borderline addiction made even more remarkable in a post bemoaning comparing both men.

Remarkable, but thanks for backing up my "not knowing they're doing it" point.

 

[Clint Planet]

Have we sacked him yet?

 

[nigelcoyb]

Have we sacked him yet?

Waiting for Arsenal to come in for him mate.

 

[ianefc]

We have got progressively worse as the season has developed, stopped scoring goals even pre lukaku injury, we scored an incredible amount of 'spectacular' goals which is never likely to last and now they have stopped going in our goals scored column has stopped raising to a decent level, our defence started off solidly or should I say Moyes defence and now we cant keep a clean sheet, we have won 3 games in the league in the last 2 and a half months which is shocking, my worry is the start was the fluke and now is what we have to expect. We are currently 14th in the form table. People will mention injuries but we have always had a large amount of injuries through the years, people hammer moyes and the job he's doing at UTD but he too had rotten luck to lose RVP n Rooney for so long and a large chunk of that at the same time, this has nothing to do with Moyes it was just showing that other teams have injuries also.

Im not right but neither are the Pro Martinez because only time will answer.

Their is also no way I would want us to be poor to be proven right, I would like to be wrong the thought of us dictating play, free flowing football. chances being created goals being scored excites me, but whatever the players are being told they statistically are not doing most of that. If its because we don't have the quality of football player then Martinez needs to adapt or do 1, Watching Everton is like watching me on FIFA on the hardest level, cant score for toffee can't even get a shot off.

 

[ianefc]

Another test Martinez now faces is motivating the players, most may not need it, we seem to have a great spirit which has been instilled over the years, speaking of years it is a year ago today we beat Man City 2-0 with 10 men and whilst we had 11 on the pitch we absolutely pummeled them that came a week after a Much worse cup exit at the hands of Wigan managed By Martinez admittedly.

 

[benditlikebainesy]

Another test Martinez now faces is motivating the players, most may not need it, we seem to have a great spirit which has been instilled over the years, speaking of years it is a year ago today we beat Man City 2-0 with 10 men and whilst we had 11 on the pitch we absolutely pummeled them that came a week after a Much worse cup exit at the hands of Wigan managed By Martinez admittedly.

Just fookin it it

 

[ianefc]

Just fookin it it

still brilliant could not have been timed better and probably what everyone was thinking at the exact same time.

 

[bicycleheader]

It's his first season. A lot of the tit for tat over him and Moyes is nonsensical, mainly because....it's his first season.

For me ever since the start of the season our problem is our attack isnt good/consistent enough. Signings, and bloody good ones are needed. Whether that will happen is another thing though.

 

[Dymak]

So why don't you and similar minded just leave it alone?

As a critic of Moyes I feel complete justification in trumpeting the improvement under Martinez and give out to Moyes because this was possible all along. He was dossing here half hearted going through the motions with an attitude we should be grateful for his presence - bang wrong that and it showed on the pitch.

If you want to justify the pro Moyes stand point by all means continue but don't be surprised when people respond, knock it down and give you some home truths ie if winning nothing, playing mostly cack football, choking the big games is your idea of a successful EFC it's not ours.

Remember if his tenure was so fantastic why on earth did so many turn against him?

Complete nonsense saying people are "biased" when putting forward their point of view it's the oddest thing I've read for a long time and as for being a hypocrite how can you be a hypocrite if consistent?

You wrote this:

"He's done well, very well, but he's still only likely to finish around a Moyes type position. I think his transfer activity, pre season success and general improvement puts him roughly equal to Moyes myself"

The desire to defend Moyes even when congratulating Martinez is borderline addiction made even more remarkable in a post bemoaning comparing both men.

Remarkable, but thanks for backing up my "not knowing they're doing it" point.

You're obsessed with Moyes. You have mentioned him, and put the boot into him, in every single one of your posts in this thread.

I think you are so obsessed with Moyes, and so eager to ridicule his tenure at Everton, that you are willing to exaggerate Martinez' performance, so that you can use it as a stick to beat Moyes with.

This is my main gripe with things to be honest, the diminishing of the progress Moyes made at Everton with the simultaneous exaggeration of Martinez' 'achievements'. The idea that Moyes had us playing like Wimbledon is pure BS, and the idea that Martinez now has us playing like Barcelona or a 2004 Arsenal side is also pure BS.

I like to keep it real. And the reality is that Moyes did very well for Everton, taking us away from the relegation fights, finishing 4th, some European football and a cup final. Now you quite rightly won't find those achievements on our Honours list, but it most certainly represented significant PROGRESS, and a considerable move away from the crap we had experienced for most of the 10 years prior to Moyes tenure.

Martinez has done well so far, but there is no way he has progressed the club further than Moyes has, YET! And it would be stupid to expect him to do so, given that he has only been here about a year, when Moyes had years to progress the club. I don't make this point because I am in love with Moyes, or because I don't like Martinez, it's just keeping it real. You're the one with the agenda, and it is clearly clouding your judgement!.

Even if Martinez finished 5 points ahead of Moyes largest points total this season, I don't think it is conclusive proof that he is infinitely better than Moyes. Next year's performance, and the performance after that would be needed before coming to an absolute conclusion. Performing well in one season, does not guarantee that the same will take place the year after.

I hope Martinez eclipses Moyes' achievements at Everton, but I would like to see him actually do so, before I actually start accrediting him for doing so.

 

[BluenosePaul]

Just before xmas after we'd won at United and outplayed the gunners in their own backyard, i wouldn't of swapped him for anyone (not even Jose).
However since the turn of the year a lot of things have worried me - a poor January, strange tactics and subs and going back to our bottling ways of important games has left me worried about the summer.

 

[dead_soft]

Just before xmas after we'd won at United and outplayed the gunners in their own backyard, i wouldn't of swapped him for anyone (not even Jose).
However since the turn of the year a lot of things have worried me - a poor January, strange tactics and subs and going back to our bottling ways of important games has left me worried about the summer.

Don't think his tactics or subs have been that strange?
And what games did he bottle? Or do you mean he lost some important games? To better teams. Liverpool were in fantastic form when we played them, and he may have made mistakes but that isn't 'bottling'. Same with Arsenal, a much better team, we were their equal or better for long periods but they just had a lot more quality. That is not bottling.

 

[Ihaters]

So why don't you and similar minded just leave it alone?

As a critic of Moyes I feel complete justification in trumpeting the improvement under Martinez and give out to Moyes because this was possible all along. He was dossing here half hearted going through the motions with an attitude we should be grateful for his presence - bang wrong that and it showed on the pitch.

If you want to justify the pro Moyes stand point by all means continue but don't be surprised when people respond, knock it down and give you some home truths ie if winning nothing, playing mostly cack football, choking the big games is your idea of a successful EFC it's not ours.

Remember if his tenure was so fantastic why on earth did so many turn against him?

Complete nonsense saying people are "biased" when putting forward their point of view it's the oddest thing I've read for a long time and as for being a hypocrite how can you be a hypocrite if consistent?

You wrote this:

"He's done well, very well, but he's still only likely to finish around a Moyes type position. I think his transfer activity, pre season success and general improvement puts him roughly equal to Moyes myself"

The desire to defend Moyes even when congratulating Martinez is borderline addiction made even more remarkable in a post bemoaning comparing both men.

Remarkable, but thanks for backing up my "not knowing they're doing it" point.

Just made an epicly big post taking that apart, then deleted it because its all just so necessary, it doesn't take a moron, let alone a genius, to identify the bias and agenda in that response of yours, it certainly doesn't take much pointing out.
Bottom line...
Your being a hypocrite.

If you think that Martinez is doing a tremendous, near faultless job this season, yet Moyes was drifting along with his endless problems of tactics, subs, attitude, incompetence etc etc...

We are a position lower than last year and that is the bottom line. Win our games in hand and we are on par for another Moyes level of finish.

Either Moyes is actually [Poor language removed] and your overrating Martinez, or Martinez is quality and your underrating Moyes. Can't be both, its such a similar season to last season, they can only have proven themselves pretty much equal with that squad.
Martinez certainly has the potential to exceed that, but until he does, they have both achieved the same for us.

Personally I think both are quality. You think one dosses about getting everything wrong, the other is pure quality, yet they have achieved the same thing during their time here so far, yet one is a success, the other a failure.

Hypocritical mate, sorry but it is.

 

[dholliday]

A supporter's hope should exceed his grasp else what's his support all about?

Nice! I like that.

We have got progressively worse as the season has developed, stopped scoring goals even pre lukaku injury, we scored an incredible amount of 'spectacular' goals which is never likely to last and now they have stopped going in our goals scored column has stopped raising to a decent level, our defence started off solidly or should I say Moyes defence and now we cant keep a clean sheet, we have won 3 games in the league in the last 2 and a half months which is shocking, my worry is the start was the fluke and now is what we have to expect. We are currently 14th in the form table. People will mention injuries but we have always had a large amount of injuries through the years.

Im not right but neither are the Pro Martinez because only time will answer.

Good post, mate.

You're obsessed with Moyes. You have mentioned him, and put the boot into him, in every single one of your posts in this thread.

I think you are so obsessed with Moyes, and so eager to ridicule his tenure at Everton, that you are willing to exaggerate Martinez' performance, so that you can use it as a stick to beat Moyes with.

This is my main gripe with things to be honest, the diminishing of the progress Moyes made at Everton with the simultaneous exaggeration of Martinez' 'achievements'. The idea that Moyes had us playing like Wimbledon is pure BS, and the idea that Martinez now has us playing like Barcelona or a 2004 Arsenal side is also pure BS.

another sensible contribution.

 

[chicoazul]

Its his first season in the most competitive top league in the world. He isn't going to nail it first go, he might not nail it at all. But from what I've seen I reckon he'll do sound.

It will take a season or two to get the players playing the way he wanta the personnel in the positions he likes.

In the meantime lets try and enjoy the ride, we are playing some ace footie and are certainly no worse than last season.

Everton aren't we?