Roberto Martinez discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
most of our goals conceded were in the box and either headers or around the 6 yard area. Can't comment on stokes goals as admittedly didn't see them, and Leicester we gave them 2 of theirs from the spot so it's not like they tried (plus the LC fan on here conceded before kick off they don't do well at set pieces). but overall the goals are similar over the course of the what? 19 games? West brom scored similar, arsenal put the ball in the same spot 8 yards from goal twice, newcastles best chances came from headers around the 6 yard box, 2 of bournemoths goals were in the box headers/ set pieces, norwich was a set piece (wasn't it?), liverpool set piece and 6 yard box, west brom scored at least one from there, palace set piece/six yard box. All off the top of my head. From my calculation looking at the above, if we knew how to defend these specific scenarios we would be 8 points better off? that is 4 draws into wins (liverpool/norwich/palace/west brom).

Massive difference to the outlook of our season , especially if you see it as then 5 points off the top with the best striker in the league scoring for fun nearly every week, compared to an 18 goal striker which is literally achieving us nothing league wise!

So we need to defend our box better so that we concede less. Do what we did at Spurs, Swansea, Newcastle when we didn't concede. Get back to the basics we did in them games.
 

So we need to defend our box better so that we concede less. Do what we did at Spurs, Swansea, Newcastle when we didn't concede. Get back to the basics we did in them games.
In a way yes. defending that part of the pitch should be basic stuff here, so if it is being overlooked in training then that's a worry. But yeah, the basics of defending is what is needed, we are capable of doing it, and certainly our front 4-5 don't impact on it anyway.

your smiths and matic wonder strikes are just one of those things, but dann/ings type headers shouldn't be a repeat experience!
 
In a way yes. defending that part of the pitch should be basic stuff here, so if it is being overlooked in training then that's a worry. But yeah, the basics of defending is what is needed, we are capable of doing it, and certainly our front 4-5 don't impact on it anyway.

I agree that the basics should be worked on and I would hope that the players demand to work on them. Which may be the case as we have conceded 9 away from home.
 

So we need to defend our box better so that we concede less. Do what we did at Spurs, Swansea, Newcastle when we didn't concede. Get back to the basics we did in them games.

I agree but we only scored one goal in them 3 games, although if my memory is correct we created a lot of chances.
 
We're going to have to start coming up with a few algorithms that put Everton top of alternative football leagues.

I'll leave the details up to @davek and the lads.
 

The Executioner's Bong take on our current situation.




Martinez and the quest for Practical Idealism
Home » Martinez and the quest for Practical Idealism


Martinez and the quest for Practical Idealism
30/12/2015
by Nic D
“Quasimodo predicted this” declared Bobby Baccalieri, the blundering New Jersey mobster. The barrel chested buffoon had foolishly mistaken the hunchbacked, Notre Dame bell ringer for French oracle, Nostradamus.

You wouldn’t have needed a vocation in soothsaying to predict the downfall of Roberto Martinez, and his team, in advance of the latest instalment of woe, a 3-4 reverse to granny haired Mark Hughes’ Stoke at Goodison on Monday night.

You could argue that we haven’t beaten anyone decent all season, if you leave out sides who don’t simply turn up and let us play through them, and you’d probably be right. A derisory 7 wins from 22 home games is a damning indictment of how Martinez’ side struggles to tag tangible outcomes to the scintillating football it is capable of serving up.

So where do we go from here?



Pragmatist v Idealist debate
Post-match there was talk on social media of ‘bringing back Moyes’, the arch pragmatist, to rectify the mid table malaise the Blues currently find themselves ensconced in.

There is often an element of revisionism with Moyes, but in terms of brass tax he brought attractive football to Goodison in only a handful of his 11 seasons at the helm, and would surely resemble a massive backwards step.

In Monday’s game the obvious – and legitimate – grievance was that RM should have closed the game down at 3-2, but such logic doesn’t compute with the current boss.

I’d argue that even if he wanted to, he couldn’t. For example, could you really see Deulofeu and Kone instantly ‘tucking in’ to close off passes through our midfield in a defensive 4-5-1, with the offensive duo ‘doubling up’ with their overworked fullbacks?

The answer sadly is no, and here lies Martinez biggest problem, namely the lack of balance and defensive qualities in the personnel of his squad to see out winning positions.

We rave about Deulofeu, and he is ace, but in such situations can we really afford to have him and another flair player, whether it be Kone or Mirallas, along with the blossoming Barkley, all in the team, with no defensive brief off the ball?

The Leicester game was a good example.

The Foxes don’t possess anywhere near the talent of this Everton side, but their aggression off the ball is commendable. Sadly, and somewhat arrogantly, graft and earning the right to play is a currency which appears to have limited value with Martinez. As a result, Ranieri’s charges out-ran us, and won the ball back through tackles, interceptions and blocks 89 times to our 29, also repelling 7 crosses to our 0.

View attachment 16473

In Monday’s game we were again out-run -distance wise – by Stoke – despite RM bringing in fresh legs to his defence, midfield and attacking lines. This was against a side who fielded the same 11 players as on Boxing Day. On last glance only relegation certainties Aston Villa had covered less ground than Everton in the top flight.

I’m not saying that ‘winning the running’ is the answer, clearly it isn’t, but surely energy off the ball puts you in a better position to repel your opponent.



Idealist; A Definition
plural noun: idealists

  1. a person who is guided more by ideals than by practical considerations.
“he came to power with the reputation of a left-wing idealist”

synonyms: utopian, visionary, wishful thinker, pipe-dreamer, fantasist, fantasizer,romantic, romanticist, romancer, castle-builder, Walter Mitty, Don Quixote, dreamer, daydreamer, impractical person, unrealistic person; More


rarefantast, reverist

antonyms: realist, cynic, defeatist
  1. Philosophy – a person who believes in the theory of idealism.
“Hegel described himself as an absolute idealist”



The current malaise
Martinez primary job as coach is to get the most out of what he has at his disposal, to maximise our strengths and minimise our weaknesses as best he can. Football is a simple game, after all.

In terms of our strengths, you can’t fault the man. With more goals scored from open play than any side in the division, he’s formed a team which offers bags of variety and is capable of outgunning the best defences in the league.

Would Moyes have brought in the likes of Deulofeu and developed the attacking capability of messrs Lukaku and Barkley as he has done so astutely? I very much doubt it.

View attachment 16474

At the other end, however, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out how to crack the Goodison code these days – even Phil Brown could probably un-lock it if you gave him unlimited time and some kind of manual.

Defensively, Martinez has left himself wide open to criticism.

It would be easy to apportion full blame to the much maligned, egomaniac and now overcooked shot stopper, Tim Howard, here.

The US star is increasingly crud, as most Evertonian’s will testify, but he doesn’t pick himself and I’d argue his failings, and that of the clowns in front of him, is a direct consequence of Martinez blindspot, that be the lack of a coherent, robust defensive strategy.

Replacing Howard with Robles might improve things to an extent, but the Spanish keeper would still be faced with mopping up the hurricane of piss in front of him.

Mori can head the ball, but Stones clearly can’t, or won’t, as is sadly the case with modern defenders.

In this instance, surely you have to think about mitigating this obvious weakness by closing off the flanks through affording enough protection to the fullbacks, given the consummate ease opposing sides find in getting down our wings to pop balls ‘into the mixer’.

The way forward
There is a third way, of course.

To remedy the failings, Martinez needs to tweak this ‘process over results at all costs’ strategy.

Now stay with me for a few moments, lids….I’m not pyramid selling here….but practical idealism, a term adopted by the Mahatma Gandhi, essentially offers the best of both;

It describes a philosophy that holds it to be an ethical imperative to implement ideals of virtue or good. It further holds it to be equally immoral to either refuse to make the compromises necessary to realise high ideals, or todiscard ideals in the name of expediency. Practical idealism in its broadest sense may be compared to utilitarianism in its emphasis on outcomes, and to political economy and enlightened self-interest in its emphasis on the alignment of what is right with what is possible.” (Gandhi Marg 2002).

Pseudo intellectual bullshit at its finest there, dear readers.

Back to Martinez then, I’m not talking about a seismic change that needs to take place, I don’t want the world to sing or for Roundy to come back as defensive coach, just a tad more pragmatism (or should that be realism ?) to be applied during matches, or ‘game management’ if you’re a seat sniffing bell whiff.

The penny must surely drop that to become a great coach there needs to be some sacrifice. Potentially this can be done by supplementing the ball playing talents abundant in the current defence with more old school, groc-like values; for example an ability to sense danger would be useful, defenders being able to attack crosses would be great and, ideally, for our backline to get touch tight to forwards, or preferably all 3. What’s Trifon Ivanov up to these days, lads? Obviously the return of Jagielka, a defender who can actually defend, will be a big shot in the arm when he’s back, hopefully for the City trilogy.



In Conclusion…
Personally I think Kenwright and the board will allow the current dynamic to continue regardless of results, after all they afford Moyes 11 years without a trophy. Sadly, I doubt potential new owners will be as tolerant with the process over results approach of RM.

I was in favour of Martinez getting the job, and short term I believe he should be given til the end of the season so we can accurately reflect on which of his first two seasons was the fluke.

I still hope that he can provide us with some kind of glory to accompany the undoubted improvement in terms of excitement levels at L4, but something’s gotta give.

NicD

Good article that. Sets out what's right, what's wrong, suggests a way to fix what's wrong and acknowledges the fact that new owners could well change the outcome.
 
Good article that. Sets out what's right, what's wrong, suggests a way to fix what's wrong and acknowledges the fact that new owners could well change the outcome.

Depends on what their ambitions are.

If they're the (unlikely) type to throw a lot of money at the team, then they might do that with RM in charge and see how that went initially and if it didn't pan out get rid.

If (more likely) they're coming in and buying shares up with the intention of getting a stadium built quickly, then they'll want stability. I'd suggest they'd view the man in charge of a team in the turbulent PL who's been here three seasons and placed us 5th, 11th and almost certainly top half again this season as a safe pair of hands. They'd only ever act against a manager if the tv cash they have to protect at all costs became threatened. That would be my thinking if I was sinking hundreds of millions into a venture. I certainly wouldn't get rid of a manager like this in the short term in the hope that the next flavour of the month works out...that s a short cut through to the relegation trapdoor and the end of the riches pouring into the club.
 
We are the entertainers though. You don't have to ask her, that is what the people, I talk to in Hull about football, call us. They love the way we play.
I dont think there's any doubt now that Everton are the nations favourite second team. Already we've been dubbed The Entertainers by the media and the whole country stops what they're doing to watch our golden generation swagger about the pitch with their rapid one touch football.

Apparently though some of our own supporters want Tony Pulis in.
 
With that logic no lineup by any manager can ever be questioned because we haven't got crystal balls. Playing 2 games in 3 days is always brings with it a fitness risk. Like I said, if he had rested Cleverley for fitness reasons then it was silly to bring him on. If he had just dropped Cleverley then it seems unfair to drop a player playing well to accommodate one that didn't look fit (McCarthy).

I'm sure like everything else in his tenure though the two injuries will be put down to bad luck with not one percentage of blame going to the manager's selection decisions. The unluckiest manager I know.

Fitness and injury aren't the same.

If Cleverly had looked absolutely knackered after 50 mins then your point holds truth. But that wasn't the case, he picked up an injury which had nothing to do with him looking tired after the Newcastle game.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Shop

Back
Top