Roberto Martinez discussion

[Donald Twain]

Send for @Woolly Blue

 

[technojoe]

I think Bobby should try out that quantum invertor.....

Failing that jags coming back has got significant importance but his absence shouldn't make such an impact. I hope Bobby hasn't ploughed too much pressure on our skipper before he's even touched a ball.......

 

[hullefc]

We don't play on the counter away though, we play exactly the same really. For example, Swansea, Norwich, Newcastle all games were we conceded nothing from open play, were games were had them penned back for long periods and created enough chances to win a few games. You could even throw Arsenal in the mix as well.

Spurs we played on the counter I would say, Southampton early on as well but we've done that home also. I certainly wouldn't say there's a big difference in how we play and it is something Martinez has always stuck by that he wants his teams to play our game wherever we go.

Away from home we have scored 8 goals from open play 2 on the counter and 3 from set pieces. We roughly do play the same away as at home in the different areas of the pitch, with slight differences between attack and defence depending if we are away or at home. We have 51% possession away from home and 54% at home.

 

[4737carlin]

Far to much "kneejerking" going on all over the shop here.

Cries of Mark Hughes, Eddie frigging Howe and other no marks whos name were replaced with Gary Monk, Michael Laudrup, Phil Brown and Brendan Rodgers not long ago.

If your gonna name Managers, at least name proper 1s.

Thing with this if Martinez was at any other side right now and we needed a manager, if his name came up you would say the same thing about him, those names are his level at best, just that some of them dont talk as much rubbish post match.

 

[neil999]

Far to much "kneejerking" going on all over the shop here.

Cries of Mark Hughes, Eddie frigging Howe and other no marks whos name were replaced with Gary Monk, Michael Laudrup, Phil Brown and Brendan Rodgers not long ago.

If your gonna name Managers, at least name proper 1s.

I cant think of anyone, well...until the new owners come in and we get guardiola

Martinez can stay on as head cheerleader

 

[evertony]

I'm 100% behind El Bob.

If he was dismissed, which I just don't see as it'll be a retrograde step IMHO, then I would propose Roberto Mancini....and perversely, Alan Pardew has got some decent credentials getting teams to over-perform at Charlton, East Ham, Newcastle and now Palace.....not sure I could do with his antics.

 

[steken1]

Me too. That said I can't remember all out attack being particularly successful.

I appreciate a manager who can get the balance right. He's as off now as Moyes was at times, albeit in an opposite way.

If he realises he's got the balance wrong and rectifies it I'd be delighted. For some reason only e very best managers can do that and have the character to do something about it.

If he continues blindly then he's another run of the mill decent manager who can only play one way.

There's personnel and players available to make them changes. If he doesn't it's purely on him.

@davek

 

[boris]

Thing with this if Martinez was at any other side right now and we needed a manager, if his name came up you would say the same thing about him, those names are his level at best, just that some of them dont talk as much rubbish post match.

I think people would want him to be honest.

I reckon most people who've seen the calibre of players he brought in here with a very limited amount of spending and the quality of football he's got us playing would think I'll have a bit of that, they're very close to be an unbelievable side.

 

[dannyboy]

Away from home we have scored 8 goals from open play 2 on the counter and 3 from set pieces. We roughly do play the same away as at home in the different areas of the pitch, with slight differences between attack and defence depending if we are away or at home. We have 51% possession away from home and 54% at home.

It will likely balance out over the course of the season in my opinion.

The sample you're using is far too small right now to give a true indication of anything really. I'd like to see the stats on this from the start of last season.

 

[dannyboy]

Far to much "kneejerking" going on all over the shop here.

Cries of Mark Hughes, Eddie frigging Howe and other no marks whos name were replaced with Gary Monk, Michael Laudrup, Phil Brown and Brendan Rodgers not long ago.

If your gonna name Managers, at least name proper 1s.

Under Moyes I constantly said what's the point in changing the manager because whoever we bring in isn't going to do any better.

Looking at the squad we have and where we are right now I can't say the same about Martinez.

 

[Furey1878]

@davek

@bizzaro

 

[4737carlin]

I think people would want him to be honest.

I reckon most people who've seen the calibre of players he brought in here with a very limited amount of spending and the quality of football he's got us playing would think I'll have a bit of that, they're very close to be an unbelievable side.

I don't think so mate, i know a few did when Moyes was at Everton, i was one of them. Mostly because we had seen Wigan destroy us in the cup and a lot of us were bored of the negativity under Moyes, but we hadn't seen the full picture. Yeah we all loved Martinez after the Old Trafford win, but reality has set in now.

We have gone from one of the worst teams to watch to a team that are great for the neutral to watch that are mid table at best.
It shouldn't be about the calibre of players, or the standard of football but the results, and there not good enough.

 

[boris]

I don't think so mate, i know a few did when Moyes was at Everton, i was one of them. Mostly because we had seen Wigan destroy us in the cup and a lot of us were bored of the negativity under Moyes, but we hadn't seen the full picture. Yeah we all loved Martinez after the Old Trafford win, but reality has set in now.

We have gone from one of the worst teams to watch to a team that are great for the neutral to watch that are mid table at best.
It shouldn't be about the calibre of players, or the standard of football but the results, and there not good enough.

I don't agree mate, I don't think everyone's blinded by results in the short term.

Just like many of our fans, who all have the best interests of our club at heart, want Martinez to stay despite the team clearly currently under performing in terms of results.

 

[davek]

Could have something to do with that. Could be that no team fears coming to Goodison. Teams like to play on the counter. Could be that the young players are too nervous and this affects their concentration. We have roughly the same possession away from home as at home 51% compared to 53%. We create as many chances away from home as at home. We don't really foul more away from home to stop the opposition.

Maybe we are missing Jags.

Maybe we are set up to attack more at home and when it breaks down we get punished. The Leicester pens. Shaqiri's first and his 'wonder' goal. We have conceded from headers in the box eg. Dann - a player left their position and Dann stormed into it. Ings goal- goalies ball all day long. Defoe's goal - counter punt player waiting for the ball. Maybe inexperience.

What are we doing anything different away than at home? I did read the other day that there was something like 37% home wins and 35% aways. Teams are perfecting their away game.

If it was a new coach coming in. Then the first question they would ask is, 'what are you doing away from home that is different to what you do at home'. If it was , 'work on the training ground practising formation after formation, set piece after set piece' - something that I would not necessarily be against. Then so be it. But we don't necessarily need someone coming in to do that. You can never practise for all eventualities, as you don't know what the opposition is going to do. I think you have to give players roles and they have to carry it out on the pitch. The Dann and Ings goals for example. If I needed to sharpen up aspects of my game I wouldn't wait for the manager to tell me I'd take the initiative. As Lukaku did when he couldn't trap a bag of cement.

There is no magic wand that can be waved to keep goals out at home. What Martinez has shown is that he did solve the attacking side of our game. And has shown that away from home we can defend and not concede many - did I mention only 9!!!! being a club record for an Everton manager after 9 aways. What has been written that he has a history of not being able to set up a team to defend doesn't bare out with what he is doing away from home, as our away goals have shown. Any analysis would have to look at what is happening at home and some of the reasons why we have conceded 19. I noticed he has brought in a new fitness trainer/coach. Good move. And shows he is not stubborn or dogmatic.

Maybe Martinez may need a bit of a rethink. As he did with the attacking side. Personally I'd go for 4-3-3 which is fluid and gives cover to the defence without losing any attacking flair.

It has always been fine margins - a dodgy back pass for instance - between winning and losing. The more I hear that players say they practise set pieces etc. and Barry's comments the more I am convinced that Martinez and the players will sort it out.

The Entertainers we are and the Entertainers we will continue to be. Wembley would be a fitting place to show off, to those watching what a jaw dropping football team we really are. Just need a ticket.

That's a fine post mate. Very thought provoking. I had no idea of the disparity in our defending home/away (and the general PL figures for home and away wins is staggering).

There must be one major reason for the difference. Goodison and the expectation that they'll screw up defending must be a factor of late, but doesn't explain a half season worth of conceding 19 goals at home. Maybe the away games the CM are more circumspect in getting up the pitch to support attacks and are giving adequate protection?

 

[toffeejack]

I don't think so mate, i know a few did when Moyes was at Everton, i was one of them. Mostly because we had seen Wigan destroy us in the cup and a lot of us were bored of the negativity under Moyes, but we hadn't seen the full picture. Yeah we all loved Martinez after the Old Trafford win, but reality has set in now.

We have gone from one of the worst teams to watch to a team that are great for the neutral to watch that are mid table at best.
It shouldn't be about the calibre of players, or the standard of football but the results, and there not good enough.

to be fair, we won nothing under moyes and possibly won't win anything under martinez because of our board. I'd much rather watch us every week under martinez not winning anything, than under moyes.