Roberto Martinez discussion

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toffeejack said:
who? alcaraz and mcgeady? At a combined weight of 500k. No manager ever has had a 100% hit rate with signings, so you can excuse a couple won't be great, when they're cheap risks, then it doesn't matter too much.

Kone people will argue has been bad, but i wouldn't go as far as saying gash, the team works better with him there, he just sh*ts himself around the penalty area. Everyone else has been a hit, i think mori will be as well.
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Funes Mori
 

Layne said:
Wigan truths as I keep hearing the same falsehoods about his valiant struggles to keep his team up

Paul Jewell 05-06
Spends 11m Sells 4m 7m net
Turns a newly promoted side to a mid table side with extra money from promotion. Finishes 10th

Paul Jewell 06-07
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Tries to rebuild side after 5 or 6 first teamers leave, finishes 17th

Chris Hutchins 07-Nov 07
Spends 12m Sells 12m 0 net
Loses 6 on the trot gets sacked in Nov

Steve Bruce Nov 07-08
Spends 5.5m Sells 1.7m 3.8m net
Bruce with some great bargains and a 5 mil striker keeps Wigan up finishing 14th

Steve Bruce 08-09
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Makes huge profit on his signing and selling Palacios in January. Finishes 11th

Roberto Martinez 09-10
Spends 13m Sells 18m -6m net
Huge profit made on two Bruce signings leave Wigan in 6 million profit as Bobby finished 16th in his first season

Roberto Martinez 10-11
Spends 10.5m Sells 2.3m 8.2m net
Spends a lot more than he sells, more than the season before's excess and romps to 16th

Roberto Martinez 11-12
Spends 8.5m Sells 7.75m 0.75m net
Loses one first team player, signs 3 new players to achieve his highest ever league finish of... 15th.

Roberto Martinez 12-13
Spends 7.3m Sells 9.2 -1.9m net
Sells Moses buys Kone. Gets relegated and wins a cup.

So between 09-13 his net spend was about 1 million and he took a team that finished 14th then 11th to the Chamionship.
In that same time period that clueless horror that is David Moyes had a net spend of about -18 million and kept his team between 6th and 8th.
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Absolutely brilliant post - the facts laid out for all to see.

But hey, it's probably just Jagielka missing. Or the Goodison crowd's negative energy.

The snide Conservatives won't like it though.
 
Layne said:
Wigan truths as I keep hearing the same falsehoods about his valiant struggles to keep his team up

Paul Jewell 05-06
Spends 11m Sells 4m 7m net
Turns a newly promoted side to a mid table side with extra money from promotion. Finishes 10th

Paul Jewell 06-07
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Tries to rebuild side after 5 or 6 first teamers leave, finishes 17th

Chris Hutchins 07-Nov 07
Spends 12m Sells 12m 0 net
Loses 6 on the trot gets sacked in Nov

Steve Bruce Nov 07-08
Spends 5.5m Sells 1.7m 3.8m net
Bruce with some great bargains and a 5 mil striker keeps Wigan up finishing 14th

Steve Bruce 08-09
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Makes huge profit on his signing and selling Palacios in January. Finishes 11th

Roberto Martinez 09-10
Spends 13m Sells 18m -6m net
Huge profit made on two Bruce signings leave Wigan in 6 million profit as Bobby finished 16th in his first season

Roberto Martinez 10-11
Spends 10.5m Sells 2.3m 8.2m net
Spends a lot more than he sells, more than the season before's excess and romps to 16th

Roberto Martinez 11-12
Spends 8.5m Sells 7.75m 0.75m net
Loses one first team player, signs 3 new players to achieve his highest ever league finish of... 15th.

Roberto Martinez 12-13
Spends 7.3m Sells 9.2 -1.9m net
Sells Moses buys Kone. Gets relegated and wins a cup.

So between 09-13 his net spend was about 1 million and he took a team that finished 14th then 11th to the Chamionship.
In that same time period that clueless horror that is David Moyes had a net spend of about -18 million and kept his team between 6th and 8th.
Click to expand...
Fair play for the research of the facts mate....pretty much proves what we think and know about Martinez. Idealistically foolish.
 

Layne said:
Wigan truths as I keep hearing the same falsehoods about his valiant struggles to keep his team up

Paul Jewell 05-06
Spends 11m Sells 4m 7m net
Turns a newly promoted side to a mid table side with extra money from promotion. Finishes 10th

Paul Jewell 06-07
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Tries to rebuild side after 5 or 6 first teamers leave, finishes 17th

Chris Hutchins 07-Nov 07
Spends 12m Sells 12m 0 net
Loses 6 on the trot gets sacked in Nov

Steve Bruce Nov 07-08
Spends 5.5m Sells 1.7m 3.8m net
Bruce with some great bargains and a 5 mil striker keeps Wigan up finishing 14th

Steve Bruce 08-09
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Makes huge profit on his signing and selling Palacios in January. Finishes 11th

Roberto Martinez 09-10
Spends 13m Sells 18m -6m net
Huge profit made on two Bruce signings leave Wigan in 6 million profit as Bobby finished 16th in his first season

Roberto Martinez 10-11
Spends 10.5m Sells 2.3m 8.2m net
Spends a lot more than he sells, more than the season before's excess and romps to 16th

Roberto Martinez 11-12
Spends 8.5m Sells 7.75m 0.75m net
Loses one first team player, signs 3 new players to achieve his highest ever league finish of... 15th.

Roberto Martinez 12-13
Spends 7.3m Sells 9.2 -1.9m net
Sells Moses buys Kone. Gets relegated and wins a cup.

So between 09-13 his net spend was about 1 million and he took a team that finished 14th then 11th to the Chamionship.
In that same time period that clueless horror that is David Moyes had a net spend of about -18 million and kept his team between 6th and 8th.
Click to expand...
Here we go, Wigan. About as relevant as looking at Diego Simeone's managerial record before he joined Atletico Madrid, but I'll bite:

Martinez spent less than his predecessors; was the last in line of those mentioned and so had to deal with the cumulative effect of zero and negative net spend seasons for the whole of that period; spent a season longer at that club when others bailed out before it went arse up...but still managed to put that pie eating town on the football map with their first (and likely only) major trophy.

Not really a subject matter I'd bring up if you want to put our manager in a poor light, tbh.
 
Layne said:
Wigan truths as I keep hearing the same falsehoods about his valiant struggles to keep his team up

Paul Jewell 05-06
Spends 11m Sells 4m 7m net
Turns a newly promoted side to a mid table side with extra money from promotion. Finishes 10th

Paul Jewell 06-07
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Tries to rebuild side after 5 or 6 first teamers leave, finishes 17th

Chris Hutchins 07-Nov 07
Spends 12m Sells 12m 0 net
Loses 6 on the trot gets sacked in Nov

Steve Bruce Nov 07-08
Spends 5.5m Sells 1.7m 3.8m net
Bruce with some great bargains and a 5 mil striker keeps Wigan up finishing 14th

Steve Bruce 08-09
Spends 17m Sells 17m 0 net
Makes huge profit on his signing and selling Palacios in January. Finishes 11th

Roberto Martinez 09-10
Spends 13m Sells 18m -6m net
Huge profit made on two Bruce signings leave Wigan in 6 million profit as Bobby finished 16th in his first season

Roberto Martinez 10-11
Spends 10.5m Sells 2.3m 8.2m net
Spends a lot more than he sells, more than the season before's excess and romps to 16th

Roberto Martinez 11-12
Spends 8.5m Sells 7.75m 0.75m net
Loses one first team player, signs 3 new players to achieve his highest ever league finish of... 15th.

Roberto Martinez 12-13
Spends 7.3m Sells 9.2 -1.9m net
Sells Moses buys Kone. Gets relegated and wins a cup.

So between 09-13 his net spend was about 1 million and he took a team that finished 14th then 11th to the Chamionship.
In that same time period that clueless horror that is David Moyes had a net spend of about -18 million and kept his team between 6th and 8th.
Click to expand...

And wage bills? The wage bills is the important thing here.
 
davek said:
Yes, there is a big disaparity. Why is that? Maybe the team are more comfortable in front of opposition and away Everton supporters than they are at Goodison?
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That's probably more down to the fact that we're more likely to play on the counter away from home, so we're not leaving the same gaps in defence as we do at home,when we're more likely to be on the front foot for most of the game

Edit : Oh, I see my theory has already been discussed.
 
davek said:
Here we go, Wigan. About as relevant as looking at Diego Simeone's managerial record before he joined Atletico Madrid, but I'll bite:

Martinez spent less than his predecessors; was the last in line of those mentioned and so had to deal with the cumulative effect of zero and negative net spend seasons for the whole of that period; spent a season longer at that club when others bailed out before it went arse up...but still managed to put that pie eating town on the football map with their first (and likely only) major trophy.

Not really a subject matter I'd bring up if you want to put our manager in a poor light, tbh.
Click to expand...

So he dines out on the six or so games to the cup final (with an easier run than Portsmouth) and then wipes the slate clean for his entire league career.

Wow, he's the managerial equivalent of Bob Geldof.
 

davek said:
Here we go, Wigan. About as relevant as looking at Diego Simeone's managerial record before he joined Atletico Madrid, but I'll bite:

Martinez spent less than his predecessors; was the last in line of those mentioned and so had to deal with the cumulative effect of zero and negative net spend seasons for the whole of that period; spent a season longer at that club when others bailed out before it went arse up...but still managed to put that pie eating town on the football map with their first (and likely only) major trophy.

Not really a subject matter I'd bring up if you want to put our manager in a poor light, tbh.
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Bruce never went arse up. So don't pretend everyone else failed at Wigan. He got offered the Sunderland job and the ability to spend a ton of money so went to "greener" pastures.
Also spent less than his predecessors comparing 1 mill net with the 3.8mill net from Bruce is 2.8 million. That'll get you half a Kone.
 
davek said:
That's an amazing transformation in such a short time in terms of away success rate. It must chime in with the increases in revenue all are experiencing now. I mean, look at Stoke: a few years ago we'd have had to contend with Crouch and Kenwyne Jones, now they have Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri.

On us in particular: I heard Roberto saying post Stoke game that these players cant help themselves going forward at any time during the game - that must be even more the case with 35,000 people screaming you on and you already have the lead. I think he has to move in those situations and make changes of a defensive nature: bring a forward off and get a defensive minded player on, and - as you imply - have Barkley slip back to make a 3 in midfield patrolling the back four (which doesn't stop us breaking out from that if the opposition break down high up the pitch).

I can appreciate maybe what is Martinez's thinking with these players: you dont want them going too often in negative patterns. But the late reversals from winning positions are going to have even more impact on confidence than that.
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Is that you finally seeing the point others have been pointing out to you
davek said:
No, no they couldn't. They don't have the players or the ambition to play in the right manner.

Maybe it's time to recognise that you don't solve the defensive weakness by stopping the attacking football, which seems to be the idea behind all the critical posts. It's dead easy to fix and it involves a bold managerial decision. It's not about balance at all, it's about taking the GK out of the equation.

Those other teams are nowhere near Everton's level of ability. Stop selling your own team short and back them.
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orly said:
So he dines out on the six or so games to the cup final (with an easier run than Portsmouth) and then wipes the slate clean for his entire league career.

Wow, he's the managerial equivalent of Bob Geldof.
Click to expand...

Here's what I know about Martinez's managerial career:

Resurrects a nothing team from South Wales, and they've never looked back since
Gives a nothing club from Greater Manchester their biggest moment in their history
Handed Everton its best PL effort and transforms our style of play

....I'm sure all that is nothing in your estimation. By most people's standards it adds up to a massive impact wherever he goes.

Not as mouth watering a prospect as Tony Pulis or Eddie Howe or Alardyce or whichever giant of the game you want at this particular moment in time as Everton manager, but not bad.
 
Layne said:
Bruce never went arse up. So don't pretend everyone else failed at Wigan. He got offered the Sunderland job and the ability to spend a ton of money so went to "greener" pastures.
Also spent less than his predecessors comparing 1 mill net with the 3.8mill net from Bruce is 2.8 million. That'll get you half a Kone.
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Yeah, let's talk about Bruce's career shall we?

...and lt's leave out the fact that buffalo headed no mark has never won a sausage as manager...with Wigan or anyone else.
 
Woolly Blue said:
Wigan Athletic Wage Bills :-

2006 : 19.9 million
2007 : 27.5
2008 : 38.4
2009 : 42.2
2010 : 39.4
2011 : ~38
2012 : ~38
2013 : ~44

You're very welcome.
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For those of you unsure, Martinez was Wigan boss
2009–2013 Wigan Athletic

Ho ho ho.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-wage-bills-club-by-club/

According to this, we've also put 10% onto the wage bill since his arrival as well.

The stats lads, they just don't add up. And here's the key one that matters - 6 wins in 19 games.
 

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