Roberto Martinez discussion

[Stanley Parker]

deulofeu and lennon play predominantly on the right, cleverley has mostly been playing centrally recently and there is no way kone should be starting ahead of him. not sure anybody could disagree with that

He may well get his chance this week.

Lets hope Mirallas is not thrown to the lions by Martinez by starting him against a very strong Man City tomorrow night.
He will probably be rusty after very little game time this season and Martinez can then sub him and cover up his own mistake and use it as an excuse for not selecting him earlier.

But Sideliner fears he may not be ready to start against City.

 

[Stanley Parker]

We are so unbalanced on the left exposing the left back Galloway or baines .for me a younger version of pienaar should be the priority

Do you think Mirallas is the player to offer cover to Galloway or Baines?

 

[Saint Domingo]

He got £25m for Lescott who he signed from the lower leagues. He'd probably have given him a run out at right back (just as he did Lescott at left back) before switching him to the centre when a space opened up.

This whole Moyes never played youngsters thing is overdone. He played plenty, the likes of Hibbert, Osman, Baines weren't always 30.

Had Jagielka not got injured in 13/14 would we have seen Stones in the league at all? He didn't start the season in the first team, came in for the games Jags missed then was straight back out the team or playing at RB with Alcaraz at CB. The next season he started at right back with Jags and Distin still in the middle (presumably had Coleman been fit he wouldn't have even been in the lineup). Distin then got injured again and never truly returned after falling out with Martinez. Stones was therefore first choice (except when Alcaraz inexplicably got picked ahead of him for big games). So whilst no one knows how Moyes would have handled it I find this 'Martinez is great with youth Moyes was rubbish' stance quite odd. Both managers have shown that they will give good youth of the correct quality a chance usually when injury hands them an opportunity. If anything Martinez has not yet thrown any league appearances to teenagers from the academy (Browning aside) in the same way Moyes did to Baxter, Forshaw, Wallace, Duffy, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Barkley, McAleny etc. Martinez seems to prefer to buy in young quality at that age group Galloway Holgate Foulds etc. Browning is the only player from the academy not bought in by Moyes (Stones and Garbutt bought by Moyes rather than academy produced) who wasn't already established in the first team squad that Martinez has brought into the first team squad. I don't see why some of Ledson, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Kenny, Pennington can't see some league time at some point in the near future.

 

[4737carlin]

....imagine what number it'll be on at the end of JAN.

Reckon abaaaar double that.

It could be locked and a new one started for his replacement

 

[mitchell1996]

Do you think Mirallas is the player to offer cover to Galloway or Baines?

do you think kone is?

 

[mitchell1996]

Do you think Mirallas is the player to offer cover to Galloway or Baines?

we're conceding goals left right and centre mate, i think its a little late to keep talented players on the bench incase they dont track back, he works harder than kone anyway i think

 

[Stanley Parker]

stretford blue said: We are so unbalanced on the left exposing the left back Galloway or baines .for me a younger version of pienaar should be the priority

we're conceding goals left right and centre mate, i think its a little late to keep talented players on the bench incase they dont track back, he works harder than kone anyway i think

So you don't think Mirallas is the right player to track back and help the left back.

We've scored 36 goals in 20 league games. Our problems lie in defence, not attack.

 

[mitchell1996]

So you don't think Mirallas is the right player to track back and help the left back.

We've scored 36 goals in 20 league games. Our problems lie in defence, not attack.

who do you want on the left side then, kone? hes boss at tracking back isnt he...
our defensive problems lie mainly in the fact that are back four isn't organised well enough, the shape of it leaves far too many gaps, and that we cant defend set pieces. having a work horse tracking back constantly would obviously help things slightly but playing mirallas (one of our most talented players) over kone for example (who has been playing in his position) will do absolutely no harm to our defensive record, but will provide a better outlet on our left hand side

 

[toffeejack]

Some people on here think if you're a young player you're an automatic starter and any manager who disagrees is neglecting the youth system...

Didn't Moyes start Barkley at Spurs and Arsenal when we were still in the hunt for 4th? You can't get a bigger vote of confidence than that.

ha, just a shame he neglected him for every other game in the 2 years.

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Could we try Lennon on the left? Or Del on the right?

 

[smileychap]

He got £25m for Lescott who he signed from the lower leagues. He'd probably have given him a run out at right back (just as he did Lescott at left back) before switching him to the centre when a space opened up.

This whole Moyes never played youngsters thing is overdone. He played plenty, the likes of Hibbert, Osman, Baines weren't always 30.

Like.
+ Gosling, Rooney, Cahill signed at 24 for £1.5m played immediately, top scorer, top 50 ballon d'or nominee ( which I never knew ), Arteta 22 when joined on loan, later about £2m. So not only did Moyes find and trust in quality, fantastic value youth ( and he gave José Baxter a few opportunities), the defence was also ageing when Moyes took over, and look at his record there as you've highlighted above.

Also, being very limited as we were transfer wise then and not able to spend 28m on 1 striker, Yak, and also our defensive line up like Yobo, Baines and Lescott also knocked in more than the current lot + Kone.

I wish we'd show more respect to what he built, + work ethic and expectations of battlers like Gravesen, Lescott ( who was amazing for us) heitinga etc.

 

[smileychap]

Had Jagielka not got injured in 13/14 would we have seen Stones in the league at all? He didn't start the season in the first team, came in for the games Jags missed then was straight back out the team or playing at RB with Alcaraz at CB. The next season he started at right back with Jags and Distin still in the middle (presumably had Coleman been fit he wouldn't have even been in the lineup). Distin then got injured again and never truly returned after falling out with Martinez. Stones was therefore first choice (except when Alcaraz inexplicably got picked ahead of him for big games). So whilst no one knows how Moyes would have handled it I find this 'Martinez is great with youth Moyes was rubbish' stance quite odd. Both managers have shown that they will give good youth of the correct quality a chance usually when injury hands them an opportunity. If anything Martinez has not yet thrown any league appearances to teenagers from the academy (Browning aside) in the same way Moyes did to Baxter, Forshaw, Wallace, Duffy, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Barkley, McAleny etc. Martinez seems to prefer to buy in young quality at that age group Galloway Holgate Foulds etc. Browning is the only player from the academy not bought in by Moyes (Stones and Garbutt bought by Moyes rather than academy produced) who wasn't already established in the first team squad that Martinez has brought into the first team squad. I don't see why some of Ledson, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Kenny, Pennington can't see some league time at some point in the near future.

Fantastic post.

 

[Sideliner]

Martinez has tried a lot of combinations but never this one :
Deulefeu
Lennon Mirallas
Lukaku
In my book this would be our most dangerous attacking formation especially if our back 4 focuses on defense and we focus on counter attacking like Leicester and Bournemouth does
I still think Coleman and Baines are too short to assist properly against areal attack - both are better at attacking than contesting in the air

 

[ijjysmith]

Martinez has tried a lot of combinations but never this one :
Deulefeu
Lennon Mirallas
Lukaku
In my book this would be our most dangerous attacking formation especially if our back 4 focuses on defense and we focus on counter attacking like Leicester and Bournemouth does
I still think Coleman and Baines are too short to assist properly against areal attack - both are better at attacking than contesting in the air

Half our problem at the mo is the lack of support our full backs get mate. We'd score loads with that team, but concede even more than we do now.

Well done getting every half decent attacking player in though!

 

[orly]

Had Jagielka not got injured in 13/14 would we have seen Stones in the league at all? He didn't start the season in the first team, came in for the games Jags missed then was straight back out the team or playing at RB with Alcaraz at CB. The next season he started at right back with Jags and Distin still in the middle (presumably had Coleman been fit he wouldn't have even been in the lineup). Distin then got injured again and never truly returned after falling out with Martinez. Stones was therefore first choice (except when Alcaraz inexplicably got picked ahead of him for big games). So whilst no one knows how Moyes would have handled it I find this 'Martinez is great with youth Moyes was rubbish' stance quite odd. Both managers have shown that they will give good youth of the correct quality a chance usually when injury hands them an opportunity. If anything Martinez has not yet thrown any league appearances to teenagers from the academy (Browning aside) in the same way Moyes did to Baxter, Forshaw, Wallace, Duffy, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Barkley, McAleny etc. Martinez seems to prefer to buy in young quality at that age group Galloway Holgate Foulds etc. Browning is the only player from the academy not bought in by Moyes (Stones and Garbutt bought by Moyes rather than academy produced) who wasn't already established in the first team squad that Martinez has brought into the first team squad. I don't see why some of Ledson, Dowell, Walsh, Williams, Kenny, Pennington can't see some league time at some point in the near future.

Spot on mate - keep exposing the Fraudo Myth