Roberto Martinez discussion

[Sideliner]

We have two defensive mids - their job is to assist the full backs in defense - not the wingers primary job to assist defending
our problem is that we use our full backs to attack instead of using our wingers - that is the cause of our leaky defense -
our full backs are caught out of position time and again and then we blame the wingers for not defending

 

[ijjysmith]

We have two defensive mids - their job is to assist the full backs in defense - not the wingers primary job to assist defending
our problem is that we use our full backs to attack instead of using our wingers - that is the cause of our leaky defense -
our full backs are caught out of position time and again and then we blame the wingers for not defending

That's not really the point mate.

We don't really have too many issues creating chances (although we could do with slotting a few more). We need to tighten up at the back. Playing all the attacking players won't really help.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

That's your formation, but what instructions would you give the players? If the opposition have the ball, they can attack. How are you going to stop them getting the ball, and then attacking? Are you going to try to keep possession or play long balls upfield?

And you don't have to play two wingers to have a sound defence! Our style has changed this season - we have had a much more conventional defence. We've had to play without Baines on the left wing, while Deulofeu has provided the main threat on the right wing. And McCarthy/Cleverley has been given a much more attacking role. I think you'll find that we've been playing the ball through central midfield much more this season.

If McCarthy wasn't injured then it would be McCarthy-barry in the middle - it offers no imagination. His hand has been forced and he now plays cleverly who offers more through the middle attacking wise - also allowing barkley to drop deeper. The second McCarthy is back he will be straight in the middle, pushing cleverley on the left wing, therefore going back to square one - side to side football, slow build up and no balance. Away from home I don't mind two holding players if again both full backs bomb forward.

In terms of instructions Im not a big fan in this 20 page dossier read to the players each game, just allow them to play naturally/instinctively, take Mori for example first few games he was clearing balls into row Z, now he is messing around from the back, something Martinez has brought in, also watching the players in the attacking third they never drive forward or shoot from distance, first thing they think off is knocking it side to side again the Martinez way. its only when we go one nil down you see the likes of Delboy and Romelu going more direct which a lot of the time reaps its rewards although sometimes too late.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

That's not really the point mate.

We don't really have too many issues creating chances (although we could do with slotting a few more). We need to tighten up at the back. Playing all the attacking players won't really help.

All the attackers ? He plays a back five plus two holding players and a centre mid on the left wing such as cleverly or a forward out of position such as Kone. The imbalance is the real issue, exposed down the left, blocked down the right and no drive down the middle. No wonder ross' confidence is up and down he is on his own a lot of the time.

 

[ijjysmith]

All the attackers ? He plays a back five plus two holding players and a centre mid on the left wing such as cleverly or a forward out of position such as Kone. The imbalance is the real issue, exposed down the left, blocked down the right and no drive down the middle. No wonder ross' confidence is up and down he is on his own a lot of the time.

I'm not sure you've followed the conversation mate. The chap was putting 5 attackers in the team.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Martinez has tried a lot of combinations but never this one :
Deulefeu
Lennon Mirallas
Lukaku
In my book this would be our most dangerous attacking formation especially if our back 4 focuses on defense and we focus on counter attacking like Leicester and Bournemouth does
I still think Coleman and Baines are too short to assist properly against areal attack - both are better at attacking than contesting in the air

Barkley in the middle with two wingers would be a start. Gives us four real threats from all areas of the pitch, with the full backs overlapping and justifying both McCarthy and barry playing every week. If we get beat then fine, at least we know we had a proper go with a balanced well drilled team. Right now we have no balance and no threat down the left.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Our issue is conceding goals, not scoring them... Why are we coming up with formations to get more attacking players in the team?

 

[Deleted member 24970]

That's not really the point mate.

We don't really have too many issues creating chances (although we could do with slotting a few more). We need to tighten up at the back. Playing all the attacking players won't really help.

Sorry mate I responded to his formation separately, im desperately trying to get across the inbalance of the team, I find it scary that we have no threat down the left yet can be so horribly exposed. The away teams know that they can block the right wing and simply find pockets of space down the left, every top team/manager has come to goodison and targeted Galloway/baines/kone whilst trying to nullify Delboy, it gives us a real struggle to break teams down except Newcastle were he started both lennon and mirallas.

 

[ijjysmith]

Sorry mate I responded to his formation separately, im desperately trying to get across the inbalance of the team, I find it scary that we have no threat down the left yet can be so horribly exposed. The away teams know that they can block the right wing and simply find pockets of space down the left, every top team/manager has come to goodison and targeted Galloway/baines/kone whilst trying to nullify Delboy, it gives us a real struggle to break teams down except Newcastle were he started both lennon and mirallas.

No worries. I've given up on us ever playing 2 proper wingers ever again.

 

[Moomin]

I'd play

Robles in Nets with Leandro " New Suarez " Rodriguez up top. The rest of the team I would pick names out of hats.

 

[Stanley Parker]

who do you want on the left side then, kone? hes boss at tracking back isnt he...
our defensive problems lie mainly in the fact that are back four isn't organised well enough, the shape of it leaves far too many gaps, and that we cant defend set pieces. having a work horse tracking back constantly would obviously help things slightly but playing mirallas (one of our most talented players) over kone for example (who has been playing in his position) will do absolutely no harm to our defensive record, but will provide a better outlet on our left hand side

Our issue is conceding goals, not scoring them... Why are we coming up with formations to get more attacking players in the team?

There are some fans who think that Mirallas should be playing.

Then, with an unchanged defence and a better attack, we would have beaten Leicester 4-3 and Stoke 5-4.

 

[orly]

I'd play

Robles in Nets with Leandro " New Suarez " Rodriguez up top. The rest of the team I would pick names out of hats.

'Hamstring Injury' - or 'Montevideo doesn't have nightclubs like Garlands'

 

[Deleted member 24970]

There are some fans who think that Mirallas should be playing.

Then, with an unchanged defence and a better attack, we would have beaten Leicester 4-3 and Stoke 5-4.

Balance Balance Balance.......

Mirallas gives width and also the full back something to think about, see Sagna, Walker, Clyne and others hitting Galloway/baines/Kone for prime example of how we can have better balance. I know if I was a manager and seen no left winger I would immediately target that area, hence the reason Galloway gets caught out of position even as recently as Shaqiri's goals for stoke.

 

[Stanley Parker]

If McCarthy wasn't injured then it would be McCarthy-barry in the middle - it offers no imagination. His hand has been forced and he now plays cleverly who offers more through the middle attacking wise - also allowing barkley to drop deeper. The second McCarthy is back he will be straight in the middle, pushing cleverley on the left wing, therefore going back to square one - side to side football, slow build up and no balance. Away from home I don't mind two holding players if again both full backs bomb forward.

Perhaps putting Cleverley back on the left will give the left back the cover we are lacking.

In terms of instructions Im not a big fan in this 20 page dossier read to the players each game, just allow them to play naturally/instinctively, take Mori for example first few games he was clearing balls into row Z, now he is messing around from the back, something Martinez has brought in, also watching the players in the attacking third they never drive forward or shoot from distance, first thing they think off is knocking it side to side again the Martinez way. its only when we go one nil down you see the likes of Delboy and Romelu going more direct which a lot of the time reaps its rewards although sometimes too late.

The club that finishes bottom of the Premier League in the 2016-17 season will pocket £99m in television fees. That means that football club owners take their Premier League membership fairly seriously.

With so much at stake, they expect their managers to give their players clear instructions, not just tell them to go out and play naturally. Players earning £50,000 a week - £2,500,000 a year! - are given explicit orders for each game and are expected to follow them exactly.

Roberto's sideways balls have only led to 36 goals in 20 games. Just imagine how many we could have scored if we drove forward or shot from distance. I don't know if our defence would be any better, but matches would certainly be exciting!

 

[MikeH72]

Worrying about whether our attacking wingers track back and defend enough is exactly the sort of Moyes mentality I thought we'd got away from back in 2013. In Martinez's first season, Deulofeu and Mirallas played together plenty of times, and we didn't need a clogger like Kone or Naismith in there to run around loads and "get stuck in". It's because we could actually defend, it's the shocking organisation of the defence that's the reason we concede so many goals, you only have to look at them when the opposition break, they're all over the place. No shape or discipline whatsoever. That's a coaching issue, for me