Roberto Martinez discussion

[boris]

I think its the 'ME ME ME' instant gratification culture.

We're having a few issues in the league and conceding. Lack of form.

Its something I think we can sort in the second half of the season.

The fact remains. Most normal Everton fans won't be screaming abuse.

Most normal Everton fans just want to see our players play boss and win.


The one's saying they hate Howard. They hate Martinez they hate hate hate.

They will claim they're the worlds no1 Everton fan the next week.

It's the keyboard culture now.

As soon as the teams named there's people spluttering & spitting all over there keypads in anger slating Our own.

They all crawled up there own arses on Wednedsay and we haven't heard off them in a that regard since until tomorrow, when it'll be rinse and repeat.

Whatever happened to just supporting the players in the pitch and letting the manager get on with doing his job.

 

[vagant59]

I blame Moyes. Seriously. His corrosive culture still has a lot of people in its thrall. Moyes' teams served up rubbish most of the time, but what they didn't do was expect the crowd to be patient while space and movement prompted fruitful moves. The direct play became our hallmark and everything since then has seemed like we're being too cautious in our approach. That leads to frustration from fans who have no conception of what a proper football team looks like...and then the abuse begins.

I don't see how Everton's present problems and our fans frustrations can be laid at Moyse's door step. Our inability to defend until recently was due to a lack of balance and players not understanding what is required of them when we don't have the ball. Our inability to create from set pieces is also a problem that needs addressing, another issue that is not the fault of Moyse. Possesion football is great, but when it results in the ball going backwards and we concede possession, it is pointless. We play some fantastic attacking football but there are problems with being to attacking minded. In recent games we have started to address these, hopefully this will continue and we will become the complete package

 

[Zatara]

Ian, Ian come on son, you're not that simple. As I said earlier in this thread some of your posts recently have been humiliating but don't dig that whole any deeper.

Those players you are on about are here for Bobby. Besic and Delefeou have told us so recently whist it's quite obviously the case with Lukaku. If anyone can keep hold of them it's him. It's all well and good saying lets see what another manager can do with them but the moment Bobby leaves so does half that dressing room.

Bobby's held off the champions for Baines and then the champions the year after for Stones, when both clubs were bursting the bank to get them. The last fella told us himself, he'd have never stood in there way but Bobby gets us, he's building a monster of a team here and although players will obviously get there heads turned our manager will only let them go when it suits us. Heads turned or not they love Bobby and they like many of us on here, can obviously see he's creating something special and they all buy into what he's doing. I pity you and the others not been able to see it but you'll see the light in the end.

However, with respect your post about us not being able to improve on Lukaku or Stones. I think us (not him) will activley try and create an auction for Stones this summer and we'll move him on as it now suits us to do so. He's not worth the money to us that we could get for him.

If Stones went for £50-£60 million next summer. We'd most definitely be a better team if we sold and replaced him with players like Yarmalenko for approx 20, Butland for approx 20 and a centre half who specialises in defending for 15-20 of Bobbys choice. We'd be strengthening 2 really weak areas and although losing a great talent we may actually be strengthening our defence also as the reputation he currently has, is there for other reasons, not because he's a great defender.

Or we could buy those players with the new tv revenues and keep him.

 

[Zatara]

I blame Moyes. Seriously. His corrosive culture still has a lot of people in its thrall. Moyes' teams served up rubbish most of the time, but what they didn't do was expect the crowd to be patient while space and movement prompted fruitful moves. The direct play became our hallmark and everything since then has seemed like we're being too cautious in our approach. That leads to frustration from fans who have no conception of what a proper football team looks like...and then the abuse begins.

Well, just looking at isolated incidents:

1--Mirallas penalty cost us and fans went off the deep end as he missed basically. If he scored then no problem...he was in the wrong of course.

2-- Stones Cruyff turns in the box just worried the fans,thats all.

3--Howard isnt a one off, ignore his ability and performances and just look at the shocking stuff hes put on twitter or said in interviews and its 16months of annoying selfish quotes.

Other than Howard nothing major really, as a fanbase i think were quite passive when it comes to this stuff. If he played for united then it would be all over the press how he thinks of the fans etc.

 

[USABlue]

Well, just looking at isolated incidents:

1--Mirallas penalty cost us and fans went off the deep end as he missed basically. If he scored then no problem...he was in the wrong of course.

2-- Stones Cruyff turns in the box just worried the fans,thats all.

3--Howard isnt a one off, ignore his ability and performances and just look at the shocking stuff hes put on twitter or said in interviews and its 16months of annoying selfish quotes.

Other than Howard nothing major really, as a fanbase i think were quite passive when it comes to this stuff. If he played for united then it would be all over the press how he thinks of the fans etc.

just had a look back to at least May of 2015 and literally every tweet is something positive about EFC, the US men's or women's team, his Tourette's Charity, and a few about his book. You're just upset because he's falling off as a keeper and throwing your squad median age wet dream out of wack.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Be happy were 6 points better off and 1 place better then we were this time last year, we also in a cup semi final. We're only half way through the season and in 3 games time we could be above Spurs.

I don't get this Lukaku and Stones are gone, it's the end of the world stuff, I'm sure we can find replacements with 150mil. Lukaku won't leave for less than 70mil and Stones 60mil plus we have to accept bids and teams have to bid. I'm not worried, still a long way to go and we can easily go on a 5-7 game winning streak

 

[Zatara]

just had a look back to at least May of 2015 and literally every tweet is something positive about EFC, the US men's or women's team, his Tourette's Charity, and a few about his book. You're just upset because he's falling off as a keeper and throwing your squad median age wet dream out of wack.

If you look at the date when it went public about his slander of Friedel then shortly after that (disgraceful) episode there were various quotes attributed to Howard every few months.

These ranged from how much of a top player he is to how he doesnt care about any criticism all the way through to his latest "the fans arent professional footballers so i couldnt care less what they think" comments.

I didnt have any problems with Nigel Martyn whatsoever nor Southall even when he was playing on his last legs for us --top professionals.

This guy is an egomaniac and i find his comments insulting to the fans.

 

[Zatara]

Be happy were 6 points better off and 1 place better then we were this time last year, we also in a cup semi final. We're only half way through the season and in 3 games time we could be above Spurs.

I don't get this Lukaku and Stones are gone, it's the end of the world stuff, I'm sure we can find replacements with 150mil. Lukaku won't leave for less than 70mil and Stones 60mil plus we have to accept bids and teams have to bid. I'm not worried, still a long way to go and we can easily go on a 5-7 game winning streak

Love the positivity.

As a 22/23 year old (in the summer) i'm not sure either of them would want to leave after seeing the chelsea drama this season. Also, Lukaku has this team being built for him to score goals which he wouldnt have elsewhere. Also Stones needs games and he could move in a year or two anyway once he hits the world claas bracket.

Lukaku and Deulofeu had bad experiences in other clubs + barkley has suffered adversity and come through it with his major injury..besic was in hungary when we got him.

The only one who has had the perfect career trajectory so far is stones and because of that he is the one i would fear losing because he is also potential emgland captain which is major marketing wise as well.

 

[USABlue]

If you look at the date when it went public about his slander of Friedel then shortly after that (disgraceful) episode there were various quotes attributed to Howard every few months.

These ranged from how much of a top player he is to how he doesnt care about any criticism all the way through to his latest "the fans arent professional footballers so i couldnt care less what they think" comments.

I didnt have any problems with Nigel Martyn whatsoever nor Southall even when he was playing on his last legs for us --top professionals.

This guy is an egomaniac and i find his comments insulting to the fans.

you, nor I, actually know him but his teammates at the club and his manager don't seem to have a problem with him. It's also not as if he's top top class and worth putting up with IF he did in fact have a bad attitude (See Eto when he was here). Basically you're upset because he doesn't care what you or any other internet warriors think.

edit: anyways this is the martinez thread. Bobby supports Tim and as long as he's wearing the shirt I think he should be supported. If Robles is in the nets he deserves support as well

 

[Zatara]

you, nor I, actually know him but his teammates at the club and his manager don't seem to have a problem with him. It's also not as if he's top top class and worth putting up with IF he did in fact have a bad attitude. Basically you're upset because he doesn't care what you or any other internet warriors think.

edit: anyways this is the martinez thread. Bobby supports Tim and as long as he's wearing the shirt I think he should be supported. If Robles is in the nets he deserves support as well

If he came out and said "i couldnt care less what my teammates think of my ability, none of them have amassed X amount of international caps nor Y amount of appearances and until they do so i will take no interest of their opinions"....then i think his team mates would think hes out of order.

hes basically said the above to the fans who are the clubs paying customers and its "soul".

If he came out and apologised for the comments hes been making for a while now then i would be fine with that -- if he plays well from now till the end of the season then to me that is secondary.

Martinez has someone in the squad who has insulted the fans several times now and additionally reacted during a game. For me, as much as i like martinez i think he should be looking to not only drop howard but also to sell him.

If lukaku made comments like Howard i would feel the same way. Its like he thinks hes bigger than the club -- I think martinez isnt dropping him due to his influence in the dressing room.

 

[USABlue]

If he came out and said "i couldnt care less what my teammates think of my ability, none of them have amassed X amount of international caps nor Y amount of appearances and until they do so i will take no interest of their opinions"....then i think his team mates would think hes out of order.

but that's the thing though, he's had nothing but nice things to say about his teammates, martinez ,etc. If your boss and co-workers are happy with you, why would you care what anyone else thinks?

edit: My point is that the squad and Martinez are fine with him so he should be supported while he's in the nets, as should Robles. Maybe if everyone didn't treat him as if he was an away player, he wouldn't be so "rude" to that section of the fanbase

 

[Ihaters]

Be happy were 6 points better off and 1 place better then we were this time last year, we also in a cup semi final. We're only half way through the season and in 3 games time we could be above Spurs.

I don't get this Lukaku and Stones are gone, it's the end of the world stuff, I'm sure we can find replacements with 150mil. Lukaku won't leave for less than 70mil and Stones 60mil plus we have to accept bids and teams have to bid. I'm not worried, still a long way to go and we can easily go on a 5-7 game winning streak

Yeah but last season was **** and not a good barometer on which to base whether this season is a good one or not, agree with the rest though the valuations seem quite high.
Even if we do sell those players, we won games before they came, we will win games when they leave, it helps but then so does having the money to strengthen the entire squad.

 

[Zatara]

but that's the thing though, he's had nothing but nice things to say about his teammates, martinez ,etc. If your boss and co-workers are happy with you, why would you care what anyone else thinks?

edit: My point is that he squad and Martinez are fine with him so he should be supported while he's in the nets, as should Robles. Maybe if everyone didn't treat him as if he was an away player, he wouldn't be so "rude" to that section of the fanbase

I look at it that hes working for a company and hes come out and disrespected that companies customers which in most other jobs would be a sackable offence.


Edit -- to reply to your edit. He has been making comments like these way before the fans turned on him.

 

[USABlue]

I look at it that hes working for a company and hes come out and disrespected that companies customers which in most other jobs would be a sackable offence.

if he worked for a company, wouldn't management be upset with him if it was such a blatant offense?

 

[USABlue]

basically i trust Martinez's judgement. Players enjoy playing for him so he must be doing something right in the dressing room