Roberto Martinez discussion

[Tubey]

Cannot get my head around anyone wanting to retain Martinez in the event of two bottom half finishes with this squad. Mental.

 

[Brendan Janus]

Cannot get my head around anyone wanting to retain Martinez in the event of two bottom half finishes with this squad. Mental.

Agreed mate, he would have to walk though !

 

[whiteshadow]

I don't see what Moyes has to do with anything and why people always bring him into things to be honest.

I'll ask you again, how about if we finsih 11th again? (without a cup which hopefully we might just sneak one)?

I don't have an issue if we finish 11th again and don't win a cup as long as I believe we'll be better off in the long term under the current regime, which I think we will.

A lot of the managers brought up in conversation like Pullis are just 2nd rate versions of Moyes. They focus on making the team hard to beat primarily, and worry about scoring afterwards. Moyes is the best pound for pound manager at doing that so if people are going to suggest managers like Pullis we might as well just get Moyes back.

 

[ijjysmith]

I don't have an issue if we finish 11th again and don't win a cup as long as I believe we'll be better off in the long term under the current regime, which I think we will.

A lot of the managers brought up in conversation like Pullis are just 2nd rate versions of Moyes. They focus on making the team hard to beat primarily, and worry about scoring afterwards. Moyes is the best pound for pound manager at doing that so if people are going to suggest managers like Pullis we might as well just get Moyes back.

Fair enough. At least you've stuck to your opinion. Personally i'll struggle to support someone who can't get this squad in the top half as a very minimum (without a cup win, that will probably sway me to love him without much effort).

Also, fairly sure any shouts for Tony Pullis, which i've not read, would be on the wind up.

 

[bicycleheader]

Cannot get my head around anyone wanting to retain Martinez in the event of two bottom half finishes with this squad. Mental.

yeah but you have a habit of being wrong Tubey


rom..besic..jelavic

who is your ideal replacement that we could realistically get?

 

[bicycleheader]

Fair enough. At least you've stuck to your opinion. Personally i'll struggle to support someone who can't get this squad in the top half as a very minimum (without a cup win, that will probably sway me to love him without much effort).

Also, fairly sure any shouts for Tony Pullis, which i've not read, would be on the wind up.

I think @ianefc may have seriously mentioned him at one point. could be wrong.

keeps getting mentioned as a part of the two year dance between him and Davey.

i dont know if anybody else has.


...maybe tubey...

 

[ianefc]

I think @ianefc may have seriously mentioned him at one point. could be wrong.

keeps getting mentioned as a part of the two year dance between him and Davey.

i dont know if anybody else has.


...maybe tubey...

I'll admit I mentioned him in and around Christmas 2014 based on the Job he did salvaging/saving Palace the season Prior, we looked to be facing the potential of a relegation battle, He was out of work at the time and it could of been a short term fix.

TBF Martinez sorted stuff with that 5 game run Including comprehensive victories over Newcastle n UTD.

Not too fussed about that. I've since said I don't want him which 'davey' pointed out.

 

[whiteshadow]

Fair enough. At least you've stuck to your opinion. Personally i'll struggle to support someone who can't get this squad in the top half as a very minimum (without a cup win, that will probably sway me to love him without much effort).

Also, fairly sure any shouts for Tony Pullis, which i've not read, would be on the wind up.

I'm not happy finishing in the bottom half but I can see what RM is trying to do. Some of the fault does lie with the manager for not closing games down or making the right subs when we're infront but we've had bad luck with injuries to Baines, Jags, Coleman and some of the goals we've conceded I blame on individual players.

We use a lot of young players, all of them have tons of potential but some fans confuse potential with ability. Just because they're skillfull players doesn't mean they've got great tactical awareness or good decision making in tight games where we need to learn to control the game. Unless you're an intelligent player that side comes with experience.

Barkley, Dela, Stones often try fancy stuff when we're already winning. Sometimes they need to learn to tone it down and make sure the team keep posession.

I'm not in denial that some of it is RM's fault, I just try and look at the bigger picture rather than pin all the blame to one person and I really doubt we'd have the quality of squad that we currently have if RM hadn't been appointed. So although it's dissapointing we're not higher in the league atm, (though a good run would change that as it's so tight) I'm happy to stick with him and see if he can get the balance right.

 

[Mo' Better Blues]

I think Roberto is just TOO IDEALISTIC, he wants us to play with flair, score all our goals from open play, 'be brave and not run down the clock', not get in the ref's face, be positive at all times, never cynical, to be some fantasy Brazil/Barca/Cruyff total football unit, etc, it's a beautiful vision, but there has to be some compromise with reality... I'm not in any pro or anti camp, but lean towards the pro, and like Davek has often said, I never want to return to hoofball, ever.

I reckon what Roberto is building is very exciting, and I'd even be a bit worried about potential takeover undermining what is in progress, however I think he needs to contemplate if there are areas of his management that could be improved by some concessions to reality, for instance the consistent florid tributes to how fantastic our players are has been well studied in psychology/group dynamics to be unsuccessful in motivating people, a conservative balance of constructive criticism and rational praise when due is far more effective in motivating humans, constant praise just rings hollow very quickly and generally results in underperformance and a kind of 'well I can get away with not giving 100% because I'll still be praised', take the gaping orifice in goal, essentially using kid gloves on a 37 year old supposed professional who is undermining our performance on a weekly basis, for fear he may poison the morale by being rightfully discarded to the bench, from a socratic position, allowing the starfishes ego to be prioritised over a whole premiership campaign, all the millions in wages that entails, just to keep this scrotal sac happy!...

Roberto needs to get real yo, or risk losing the fanbase before we get to see his fully realised vision on the pitch

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

I think Roberto is just TOO IDEALISTIC, he wants us to play with flair, score all our goals from open play, 'be brave and not run down the clock', not get in the ref's face, be positive at all times, never cynical, to be some fantasy Brazil/Barca/Cruyff total football unit, etc, it's a beautiful vision, but there has to be some compromise with reality... I'm not in any pro or anti camp, but lean towards the pro, and like Davek has often said, I never want to return to hoofball, ever.

I reckon what Roberto is building is very exciting, and I'd even be a bit worried about potential takeover undermining what is in progress, however I think he needs to contemplate if there are areas of his management that could be improved by some concessions to reality, for instance the consistent florid tributes to how fantastic our players are has been well studied in psychology/group dynamics to be unsuccessful in motivating people, a conservative balance of constructive criticism and rational praise when due is far more effective in motivating humans, constant praise just rings hollow very quickly and generally results in underperformance and a kind of 'well I can get away with not giving 100% because I'll still be praised', take the gaping orifice in goal, essentially using kid gloves on a 37 year old supposed professional who is undermining our performance on a weekly basis, for fear he may poison the morale by being rightfully discarded to the bench, from a socratic position, allowing the starfishes ego to be prioritised over a whole premiership campaign, all the millions in wages that entails, just to keep this scrotal sac happy!...

Roberto needs to get real yo, or risk losing the fanbase before we get to see his fully realised vision on the pitch

BOSS post, have the rest of the day off & a crumpet...

 

[Stanley Parker]

I think Roberto is just TOO IDEALISTIC, he wants us to play with flair, score all our goals from open play, 'be brave and not run down the clock', not get in the ref's face, be positive at all times, never cynical, to be some fantasy Brazil/Barca/Cruyff total football unit, etc, it's a beautiful vision, but there has to be some compromise with reality... I'm not in any pro or anti camp, but lean towards the pro, and like Davek has often said, I never want to return to hoofball, ever.

I reckon what Roberto is building is very exciting, and I'd even be a bit worried about potential takeover undermining what is in progress, however I think he needs to contemplate if there are areas of his management that could be improved by some concessions to reality, for instance the consistent florid tributes to how fantastic our players are has been well studied in psychology/group dynamics to be unsuccessful in motivating people, a conservative balance of constructive criticism and rational praise when due is far more effective in motivating humans, constant praise just rings hollow very quickly and generally results in underperformance and a kind of 'well I can get away with not giving 100% because I'll still be praised', take the gaping orifice in goal, essentially using kid gloves on a 37 year old supposed professional who is undermining our performance on a weekly basis, for fear he may poison the morale by being rightfully discarded to the bench, from a socratic position, allowing the starfishes ego to be prioritised over a whole premiership campaign, all the millions in wages that entails, just to keep this scrotal sac happy!...

Roberto needs to get real yo, or risk losing the fanbase before we get to see his fully realised vision on the pitch

But "the consistent florid tributes" are just his public face. In training, he may well be different.

But the players do seem to want to play for him. I bet he doesn't forget to send them birthday cards.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

“Without going back to it, it is sometimes our game management and recognising that certain moments in a game require a different type of approach,”

So, if the PLAYERS know it then....????????

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

We are easy on the eye to watch under his toolage. But greater emphasis on our defense is warranted going forward. Playing out of the back is nice but changing conditions require different tactics.

 

[Mogwai]

I think Roberto is just TOO IDEALISTIC, he wants us to play with flair, score all our goals from open play, 'be brave and not run down the clock', not get in the ref's face, be positive at all times, never cynical, to be some fantasy Brazil/Barca/Cruyff total football unit, etc, it's a beautiful vision, but there has to be some compromise with reality... I'm not in any pro or anti camp, but lean towards the pro, and like Davek has often said, I never want to return to hoofball, ever.

I reckon what Roberto is building is very exciting, and I'd even be a bit worried about potential takeover undermining what is in progress, however I think he needs to contemplate if there are areas of his management that could be improved by some concessions to reality, for instance the consistent florid tributes to how fantastic our players are has been well studied in psychology/group dynamics to be unsuccessful in motivating people, a conservative balance of constructive criticism and rational praise when due is far more effective in motivating humans, constant praise just rings hollow very quickly and generally results in underperformance and a kind of 'well I can get away with not giving 100% because I'll still be praised', take the gaping orifice in goal, essentially using kid gloves on a 37 year old supposed professional who is undermining our performance on a weekly basis, for fear he may poison the morale by being rightfully discarded to the bench, from a socratic position, allowing the starfishes ego to be prioritised over a whole premiership campaign, all the millions in wages that entails, just to keep this scrotal sac happy!...

Roberto needs to get real yo, or risk losing the fanbase before we get to see his fully realised vision on the pitch

I agree....I feel like he is adapting though, he has definitely been changing his approach when he recognizes problems. Its a lot different now to when he started. He is still young and learning all the time. He seems like a really intelligent person, so I doubt he doesn't see what we see. I think he is gradually trying to find his own style that works. It feels like he has nearly got it perfect, just a few frailties in game management. He addressed Lukakus situation last year and now he is progressing on defence. Its just a matter of time.

As humble egg eluded to, you can't take anything your hear in public to be the truth with Martinez. He has to protect his players and portray a positive light on the club. I doubt its anything like that in training.

 

[bicycleheader]

I think Roberto is just TOO IDEALISTIC, he wants us to play with flair, score all our goals from open play, 'be brave and not run down the clock', not get in the ref's face, be positive at all times, never cynical, to be some fantasy Brazil/Barca/Cruyff total football unit, etc, it's a beautiful vision, but there has to be some compromise with reality... I'm not in any pro or anti camp, but lean towards the pro, and like Davek has often said, I never want to return to hoofball, ever.

I reckon what Roberto is building is very exciting, and I'd even be a bit worried about potential takeover undermining what is in progress, however I think he needs to contemplate if there are areas of his management that could be improved by some concessions to reality, for instance the consistent florid tributes to how fantastic our players are has been well studied in psychology/group dynamics to be unsuccessful in motivating people, a conservative balance of constructive criticism and rational praise when due is far more effective in motivating humans, constant praise just rings hollow very quickly and generally results in underperformance and a kind of 'well I can get away with not giving 100% because I'll still be praised', take the gaping orifice in goal, essentially using kid gloves on a 37 year old supposed professional who is undermining our performance on a weekly basis, for fear he may poison the morale by being rightfully discarded to the bench, from a socratic position, allowing the starfishes ego to be prioritised over a whole premiership campaign, all the millions in wages that entails, just to keep this scrotal sac happy!...

Roberto needs to get real yo, or risk losing the fanbase before we get to see his fully realised vision on the pitch

Its all very well written, but the main gist of it fails to note that you are commenting on what he says in public.

That doesn´t mean he is all peaches & cream with every one of them behind closed doors.

I´d be amazed if he is.