Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Reasoned?

'...little difference between 6th & 11th'

Nor between 4th from bottom and 7th I suppose also then eh...

K.

In fact let's just jib the league standings in general, may as well just concentrate on the cups per campaign now then, seein as, y'know, it doesn't really matter...

Anything outside the top four is just varying degrees of failure. The cups are tangible success. It's pretty standard thinking to anyone not brain washed by the super duper-Sky Sports-Barclays Premier League corporate group think.

 

[davek]

Let me put it this way.....we are five games away from winning the F.A. Cup.

Two games away from winning the League Cup.

Would you willingly trade the sacrifice of those twenty one points in order to win both those trophies in the belief that we would pick up the ten or eleven points still needed to stay clear of relegation?

If a genie popped out the bottle right now and offered me that choice I would take it all right

But I would hate to sacrifice all those league wins to wind up falling at the final hurdle

Sod that lying toad of a genie

So I am going to opt for what I opt for every time this particular hypothetical scenario is raised round these parts.

We march toward the sound of the cannon.

EFC aims to finish as high up the table as possible and has a go at winning a Cup....or two.

COYB

#EntertainersFootballClub

I said a cup. I'd gladly swap 6 points to win the LC. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

I honestly think there's some amongst our numbers who've never actually experienced the high of a cup final win and are downgrading it in their minds to something like qualifying for that friggin EL nonsense tournament. It's not. And more likely than not it's a priority for most people who have experienced trophy wins...certainly a priority over finishing with a pat on the head as 'best of the rest' in the league.

 

[davek]

'We're not good enough to compete with the big boys in the league so let's not even bother with that, let's just focus on the cups, eh?'

I'm guessing @davek would be very happy if Roberto says that in the first presser of the next season.

He'd never say that. But the reality is that the PL is so congested with teams capable of picking up the higher failure places from 5th-7th that the cups will become ever more important to any team wishing to grab some success. That's what the influx of tv cash has done.

 

[MartSlinger]

No one remembers 5th-17th in this League, we're the living example of it. We constantly done it for years under Moyes and where has that gotten us? Nowhere. You're remembered for winning Cups and im more confident than ever that under this Manager we will win a cup, this year.

Cup Winners are remembered, 5th place finishers aren't.

 

[Woolly Blue]

He'd never say that. But the reality is that the PL is so congested with teams capable of picking up the higher failure places from 5th-7th that the cups will become ever more important to any team wishing to grab some success. That's what the influx of tv cash has done.

If you could sacrifice a 5th place finish for a cup win I'd gladly take that. In reality it's not really like that though.

For me, the thing about wanting to be in the hunt for a Europa League spot via our league position is that it shows we're close to Champions League qualification. I suppose you could argue that Leicester were nowhere near last season, but I think to have Champions League aspirations you're going to have to be close in seasons when you're 5th to 8th or you're unlikely to crack it.

Given recent history, a cup's more important than league position at the moment though. But if we'd won two or three trophies over the last ten years I reckon I might see it differently.

 

[Khalekan]

No one remembers 5th-17th in this League, we're the living example of it. We constantly done it for years under Moyes and where has that gotten us? Nowhere. You're remembered for winning Cups and im more confident than ever that under this Manager we will win a cup, this year.

Cup Winners are remembered, 5th place finishers aren't.

I'll go further.

Cup winners are remembered.....2nd place finishers aren't.

 

[davek]

If you could sacrifice a 5th place finish for a cup win I'd gladly take that. In reality it's not really like that though.

For me, the thing about wanting to be in the hunt for a Europa League spot via our league position is that it shows we're close to Champions League qualification. I suppose you could argue that Leicester were nowhere near last season, but I think to have Champions League aspirations you're going to have to be close in seasons when you're 5th to 8th or you're unlikely to crack it.

Given recent history, a cup's more important than league position at the moment though. But if we'd won two or three trophies over the last ten years I reckon I might see it differently.

In 2004/05 we hadn't been there or thereabouts for years prior to that season - we just found ourselves in a fortuitous situation and took it. If Leicester do that this season that's the same scenario.

I dont think there's any need for serving a sort of 'apprenticeship' before taking one of those four places, if or when one becomes available. This team next season could conceivably finish top three, never mind top four. They are going through the gears comfortably at times in matches against the elite as it is and, once topped off with a very good GK, can sustain a challenge consistently next season.

In the meantime we have to throw everything at those cups. Trophy wins breed winning attitudes and players buy into a team that land silverware.

 

[4737carlin]

'We're not good enough to compete with the big boys in the league so let's not even bother with that, let's just focus on the cups, eh?'

I'm guessing @davek would be very happy if Roberto says that in the first presser of the next season.

Well it would make more sense then saying we won games when we didn't score more goals then the opponent.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Anything outside the top four is just varying degrees of failure. The cups are tangible success. It's pretty standard thinking to anyone not brain washed by the super duper-Sky Sports-Barclays Premier League corporate group think.

It's pretty patronising to assume that anyone - (The collective being 'braying dogs', yes?) - who's not as evidently cock-a-hoop as you are in relation to the current performance of the manager and his particular failings thinks like this because they're brainwashed by SKY/Corporate group think/Barclays/Gutter Press/Pundits & a yearning for fuffin' 'hoofball' & the return of Ginge...

From the man who describes the current standard as 'from the Gods' too....chuckling from on high as they must be at times (whilst sat RIGHT on the edge of their clouds at others, I get that).

But as for the 'varying degrees of failure bit'....MASSIVE 'wow' to that. May as well not bother taking part if it's top four or nothing then...

Personally mate I quite like the idea of finishing as high in the table as we possibly can. It shows me progress, albeit fleeting at times. A lot of stuff you say I actually agree with Dave - shocker I know - but I simply cannot accept that majority of fans would be just as happy finishing 14th as they would be finishing 6th or 7th.

 

[Minimeister]

I'll go further.

Cup winners are remembered.....2nd place finishers aren't.

Except if you celebrate winning the title in April but then it all slips away.

 

[dannyboy]

No one remembers 5th-17th in this League, we're the living example of it. We constantly done it for years under Moyes and where has that gotten us? Nowhere. You're remembered for winning Cups and im more confident than ever that under this Manager we will win a cup, this year.

Cup Winners are remembered, 5th place finishers aren't.

Absolutely mad way of looking at things. Finishing higher in the league means you're a better team more likely to attract quality players who are looking for European football.

It also gives a true reflection of how you're performing overall in terms of consistency. Anyone can fluke through rounds of the cup depending on draws and lucky moments, but the league is your bread and butter.

The problem with accepting lower league finishes is you leave yourself susceptible to what's happened to Villa. What you're doing with this theory is pretty much writing off 38 games because we won't win the league. You might as well only watch our cup games.

 

[dannyboy]

It's pretty patronising to assume that anyone - (The collective being 'braying dogs', yes?) - who's not as evidently cock-a-hoop as you are in relation to the current performance of the manager and his particular failings thinks like this because they're brainwashed by SKY/Corporate group think/Barclays/Gutter Press/Pundits & a yearning for fuffin' 'hoofball' & the return of Ginge...

From the man who describes the current standard as 'from the Gods' too....chuckling from on high as they must be at times (whilst sat RIGHT on the edge of their clouds at others, I get that).

But as for the 'varying degrees of failure bit'....MASSIVE 'wow' to that. May as well not bother taking part if it's top four or nothing then...

Personally mate I quite like the idea of finishing as high in the table as we possibly can. It shows me progress, albeit fleeting at times. A lot of stuff you say I actually agree with Dave - shocker I know - but I simply cannot accept that majority of fans would be just as happy finishing 14th as they would be finishing 6th or 7th.

You start finishing 14th on a regular basis then it won't be long until you start slipping and sliding towards that relegation zone.

 

[davek]

But as for the 'varying degrees of failure bit'....MASSIVE 'wow' to that. May as well not bother taking part if it's top four or nothing then...
Personally mate I quite like the idea of finishing as high in the table as we possibly can. It shows me progress, albeit fleeting at times. A lot of stuff you say I actually agree with Dave - shocker I know - but I simply cannot accept that majority of fans would be just as happy finishing 14th as they would be finishing 6th or 7th.

That's the sort of trap we fell into in the Moyes era: that it was a badge of honour to finnish high in the league. It was a substitute for actually achieving things. We've done that best of the rest nonsense. It gets a pat on the head and a kick in the balls. Meanwhile other teams are running round football pitches with trophies.

A return to the comfort blanket of a secure top half finish is ok, but it cant be an objective...and if it gets in the way of winning a cup I know which games I'd prioritse.

 

[Khalekan]

Except if you celebrate winning the title in April but then it all slips away.

Yes......the most memorable second in history.....

 

[Khalekan]

I said a cup. I'd gladly swap 6 points to win the LC. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

I honestly think there's some amongst our numbers who've never actually experienced the high of a cup final win and are downgrading it in their minds to something like qualifying for that friggin EL nonsense tournament. It's not. And more likely than not it's a priority for most people who have experienced trophy wins...certainly a priority over finishing with a pat on the head as 'best of the rest' in the league.

What about the F.A. Cup, Dave.

Would you sacrifices 15 points to win that?

I would

And I would relish the prospect of EL football back at The Park next season