Roberto Martinez discussion

[dannyboy]

What about the F.A. Cup, Dave.

Would you sacrifices 15 points to win that?

I would

And I would relish the prospect of EL football back at The Park next season

What if we win neither cup and finish in the bottom half? At least the end of season DVD would be packed full of goals I guess.

 

[Khalekan]

What if we win neither cup and finish in the bottom half? At least the end of season DVD would be packed full of goals I guess.

And that would make for better viewing that the vast majority of season DVDs during my forty five years of following Everton....

 

[davek]

What about the F.A. Cup, Dave.

Would you sacrifices 15 points to win that?

I would

And I would relish the prospect of EL football back at The Park next season

If it took us too near the relegation spots, no.

Maybe next season....

 

[mythbuster]

It's pretty patronising to assume that anyone - (The collective being 'braying dogs', yes?) - who's not as evidently cock-a-hoop as you are in relation to the current performance of the manager and his particular failings thinks like this because they're brainwashed by SKY/Corporate group think/Barclays/Gutter Press/Pundits & a yearning for fuffin' 'hoofball' & the return of Ginge...

From the man who describes the current standard as 'from the Gods' too....chuckling from on high as they must be at times (whilst sat RIGHT on the edge of their clouds at others, I get that).

But as for the 'varying degrees of failure bit'....MASSIVE 'wow' to that. May as well not bother taking part if it's top four or nothing then...

Personally mate I quite like the idea of finishing as high in the table as we possibly can. It shows me progress, albeit fleeting at times. A lot of stuff you say I actually agree with Dave - shocker I know - but I simply cannot accept that majority of fans would be just as happy finishing 14th as they would be finishing 6th or 7th.

Finishing higher up the table at what cost though? Playing percentage football knowing it will mean a solid season, year in, year out, whilst ultimately accepting our place in the pecking order outside of the elite? For example, I'm certain that not only would Naismith still be here if Moyes was still in charge, he'd be a first choice pick. Likewise, Deulofeu wouldn't have got a sniff. Possibly Barkley too.

Roberto is having none of that. He wants us to go toe to toe with the elite. It takes a lot of bravery, and there's gonna be bumps along the way, but it's that sort of ambition, the ambition to see us as one of the best footballing sides in the country, and on the continent, that keeps me on side.

 

[Darkhorse]

That's the sort of trap we fell into in the Moyes era: that it was a badge of honour to finnish high in the league. It was a substitute for actually achieving things. We've done that best of the rest nonsense. It gets a pat on the head and a kick in the balls. Meanwhile other teams are running round football pitches with trophies.

A return to the comfort blanket of a secure top half finish is ok, but it cant be an objective...and if it gets in the way of winning a cup I know which games I'd prioritse.

I agree, but only for this season. From all the 5th, 6th, 7th place finishes under Moyes what do we have to show for it? nada. We have been starved of silverware, thus if RM can deliver a cup i'm more than happy to accept a poor league finish. You'd wanna win the cup tho... finishing 14th and only making semi-final(s) would be a disaster

 

[davek]

I agree, but only for this season. From all the 5th, 6th, 7th place finishes under Moyes what do we have to show for it? nada. We have been starved of silverware, thus if RM can deliver a cup i'm more than happy to accept a poor league finish. You'd wanna win the cup tho... finishing 14th and only making semi-final(s) would be a disaster

If we get past City it's a coin toss. I'd take that in a shot right now. In the league, I dont think there's any chance we finish 14th. Even last season when we were playing some poor stuff we recovered to pick up 11th. That's as low as it'll go with this crop of players this season. If we beat Swansea on Sunday we'll probably be top half and I wouldn't expect us to surrender that place between then and the end of the season. We're playing better and we have a squad that has strength in depth (though I'd prefer another forward in this window).

 

[Lanolin]

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love us to win a cup - any cup. I'm desperate for it, just something tangible, that makes all the last minute sickeners, Derby defeats and downright embarrassments that I've witnessed worthwhile.

I think suggesting cup winners are remembered is talk from a (long) bygone era though. I honestly couldn't tell you who's won the league cup over the last 10-15 years. I know birmingham won it once and I seem to remember Bradford getting to the final at some point, other than that - nothing.

Pretty sure I could name every team that's finished top 4 in the same period.

 

[canuckblue]

What if this or what if that? Biggest frigging word in the English language, this "if" -- or, as they say in my mother's native tongue, "Wenn der wenn nicht ware, ware Scheisstreich Butter." In other words, "If not for the if, s--t would be butter."
I prefer to wait until the end of the season -- we're barely past halfway -- before declaring it to be a success or failure.

 

[RaleighBlue]

But as for the 'varying degrees of failure bit'....MASSIVE 'wow' to that. May as well not bother taking part if it's top four or nothing then....

This is literally the point of sports. To win. Being middle of the pack means we didn't win, therefore, we lost. It's what's attractive about sports - it's binary. You can find solace in stuff like finishing 7th instead of 14th, but in the end both mean you're not good enough.

The goal should be 1st. Win the league. The reasonable step to that is to reach the Champion's League to get money and status to attract the players to win the whole thing.

4th is a stepping stone. 7th is not. Arsenal have not been successful re the League in years. Even though they've finished 4th - because for them the goal should be 1st.

I accept reason - we are extremely unlikely to win the league next season. However, we can improve toward 4th. If 4th is out of reach, I want a cup. Making up the numbers is failure. 6th is failure. 5th is ok, due to Europa, but still a disappointment.

It blows my mind that people care this much about finishing 8th or 11th. It's all just mediocrity.

 

[Groucho]

It blows my mind that people care this much about finishing 8th or 11th. It's all just mediocrity.

Aye. Is there a real difference between 8th and 17th?

We need higher, simple as that. Obviously I'd like 1st but realistically we need CL to keep Lukaku and Stones. EL won't cut it.

 

[canuckblue]

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love us to win a cup - any cup. I'm desperate for it, just something tangible, that makes all the last minute sickeners, Derby defeats and downright embarrassments that I've witnessed worthwhile.

I think suggesting cup winners are remembered is talk from a (long) bygone era though. I honestly couldn't tell you who's won the league cup over the last 10-15 years. I know birmingham won it once and I seem to remember Bradford getting to the final at some point, other than that - nothing.

Pretty sure I could name every team that's finished top 4 in the same period.

Seeing as you only need to name seven teams in total, not exactly a stretch.

 

[mythbuster]

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love us to win a cup - any cup. I'm desperate for it, just something tangible, that makes all the last minute sickeners, Derby defeats and downright embarrassments that I've witnessed worthwhile.

I think suggesting cup winners are remembered is talk from a (long) bygone era though. I honestly couldn't tell you who's won the league cup over the last 10-15 years. I know birmingham won it once and I seem to remember Bradford getting to the final at some point, other than that - nothing.

Pretty sure I could name every team that's finished top 4 in the same period.

I take it you're not familiar with a clubs 'roll of honours' then?

I'm proud of ours mate, and I want to see it get better, thanks.

Spurs can claim to have won more trophies than us; even though they've only won the league twice......

 

[Darkhorse]

If we get past City it's a coin toss. I'd take that in a shot right now. In the league, I dont think there's any chance we finish 14th. Even last season when we were playing some poor stuff we recovered to pick up 11th. That's as low as it'll go with this crop of players this season. If we beat Swansea on Sunday we'll probably be top half and I wouldn't expect us to surrender that place between then and the end of the season. We're playing better and we have a squad that has strength in depth (though I'd prefer another forward in this window).

Get past city and its 60/40 our way I reckon. 14th slight exaggeration but 11th etc a poor finish all the same, true it would be irresponsible not to strengthen the squad in this window... we are on the eve of some great opportunities yet lack conviction and FWD depth. Both of which can be bought or at least loaned lol

 

[davek]

Get past city and its 60/40 our way I reckon. 14th slight exaggeration but 11th etc a poor finish all the same, true it would be irresponsible not to strengthen the squad in this window... we are on the eve of some great opportunities yet lack conviction and FWD depth. Both of which can be bought or at least loaned lol

If it's liverpool we're better, but there's a sizeable monkey we have to get off our back. Stoke would (in terms of football ability alone) represent a greater threat.

 

[mythbuster]

If it's liverpool we're better, but there's a sizeable monkey we have to get off our back. Stoke would (in terms of football ability alone) represent a greater threat.

Stoke are 16-1 Dave. Think it's great odds myself.