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Roberto Martinez discussion

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The revolution continues.Of course we are two wins away from a trophy but 3 home league wins so far this season like.Look at Spurs there outsiders for the title and they have a squad no better than ours.Leicester at the moment are right in the title mix and they have a squad that is much inferior to ours.The difference is that both of those clubs have managers that can win matches.Of course the thou shalt not criticize apologists will say who do i think i am.That i expect Rome to be built in a day.Those same people will also say that we were never in with a chance of the top 4 in the first place.Rubbish there's no reason why we shouldn't be where the likes of Spurs are.Not 12th 13 points of a top 4 place and 7 points off West Ham in 6.C'mon now were much better than a mediocre mid table outfit yet that's where we are in the league table.Again considering the players he has at his disposal Roberto Martinez is really underachieving as manager of Everton football club.
 
My major concern for the city game is Martinez doesn't know how to beat them. Either we go at them like the first leg and leave our self open or we go to shut them out like the league game and remove all our creativity.

I can't see a game plan that has us scoring and defending well which is a massive worry. We have to score and score first to have the best chance of going through.
 
Ashtonian said:
My major concern for the city game is Martinez doesn't know how to beat them. Either we go at them like the first leg and leave our self open or we go to shut them out like the league game and remove all our creativity.

I can't see a game plan that has us scoring and defending well which is a massive worry. We have to score and score first to have the best chance of going through.
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Fortunately we don't have to beat them.

A draw suffices.

Or even a 3-2 defeat.
 
jceverton said:
Martinez's managerial hero is Cruyff who worked a lot on attack and wasn't too bothered about defense. He should however be taking a leaf out of another Cruyff fan Guardiola. He wanted to score goals but he also hated concededing goals and developed innovative ways to do this.

In his 4 seasons as Barceloana manager his team conceded 35,24,21 & 29 goals in the league. So it's possible to play with style and have a good defence but you've got to work hard on it. So this stuff that Martinez's talks about winning in style as though it's an excuse for conceding goals at an alarming rate is just rubbish.
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Spot on really, but Guardiola's method of fixing it, and his system altogether, was much different than what we have currently. It wouldn't be too hard to change to that really, but it would mean we don't use 2 defensive mids at all times and less attacks from the full backs, as they'd have to take up some defensive responsibility instead of spending half the game so far up the pitch...

It's not even hard to "convert" to that from what we currently have tbh, but still I have no confidence in it - Martinez has shown not a single iota of trying to change his management style and system, doubt he'll do it overnight as well.
 

Khalekan said:
Fortunately we don't have to beat them.

A draw suffices.

Or even a 3-2 defeat.
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True.

You seen how much pressure city in the etihad us though. Not the first time we have had to suffer that barrage either and this time they are chasing a goal so makes them a little bit more urgent.

Can we beat them? Can we go through?

Yes. But it will take more than just looking to shut them out to do it.
 
Ashtonian said:
True.

You seen how much pressure city in the etihad us though. Not the first time we have had to suffer that barrage either and this time they are chasing a goal so makes them a little bit more urgent.

Can we beat them? Can we go through?

Yes. But it will take more than just looking to shut them out to do it.
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Well, I think we will score.

That will nullify their away goal advantage.

And if we can nick a second, then they need four.

We are going through, Ash.....;)
 
Style vs. substance: let's look at the teams I think we're ahead of talent wise but are ahead of us in the table.

Number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for West Ham: 3
Number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for Crystal Palace: 6
Number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for Southampton: 2
Number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for Watford: 4
Number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for Liverpool: 5 (3 with Klopp, 2 with Rodgers)

And number of 1-0 or 2-1 wins for Everton: 1. Newcastle.

For all the talk of points lost late on, I think this shows that there's no one really willing to step up whether it's in the players on the pitch or the manager. If we win the cup and Martinez drags us back into say 7th or 9th, then I'd see no reason to get rid. But if it stays 11th again then I really see no point in keeping him on. Devil's advocate in me says "if he leaves then Barkley/Lukaku/Stones/Deulofeu will want to leave" but then that's a LOT of money for any new manager to build around McCarthy, Cleverley, Galloway/Baines, Coleman, and Funes Mori.
 
I can't believe this is still under debate. Regardless of what happens in the cup he is a poor manager. A good manager gets the best out of what he has. Bobby doesn't. A good manager learns from his mistakes. Bobby doesn't. The things that are costing us at the moment will not go away. What makes it worse is that with Barry, McCarthy or Besic, he plays two defense minded midfielders which should further shield the back four. I really can't think of many other managers who would have us so low with this squad and I genuinely mean that. Utter clown !!
 

For the second year running, Martinez appears to have put all his and the players eggs in a cup basket. For this squad of players to be languishing in the lower reaches of the table is shameful. I've lost all faith in him regardless of what happens on Wednesday.
 
I still appreciate the squad he's trying to build (without the financial backing we'd like to see) but the amount of points lost is frustrating, we should be pushing for the europa league at least this season possibly the CL with some of the traditional big gun teams not at their best.
 
i started duncan chant said:
I can't believe this is still under debate. Regardless of what happens in the cup he is a poor manager. A good manager gets the best out of what he has. Bobby doesn't. A good manager learns from his mistakes. Bobby doesn't. The things that are costing us at the moment will not go away. What makes it worse is that with Barry, McCarthy or Besic, he plays two defense minded midfielders which should further shield the back four. I really can't think of many other managers who would have us so low with this squad and I genuinely mean that. Utter clown !!
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Gary Megson, Neil Warnock and Ian Holloway.
 

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