ijjysmith
Calm
I doubt they'd have attracted the players here in the first place to be honest.
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Roberto Martinez discussion
- Thread starter ijjysmith
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I doubt they'd have attracted the players here in the first place to be honest.
Matty_j1878
Yer ma's favorite ITK. Mmmmmm Juicy.
Morning lads, i didn't want to write anything on here last night because i was fuming (still am tbh). However after sleeping on my thoughts, this is my take on the situation.
Last year Martinez had the benefit of the doubt from many fans as we had a very strenuous campaign juggling Europe, the league and what little we had of the Cups. This year however, we haven't had to play on a Thursday then on the Saturday/Sunday.
I do think he could be a good manager, our fans demand the best (some demand it by booing), to pass any blame onto the fans is ludicrous, should fans boo? Not a chance, should we make our feelings heard? Yes, but how do we do this when we have NO contact with the club? How do we make our feelings heard? In short we can't (except for the crowd at the old lady). The Peoples Club? Don't make me laugh, we haven't been 'The Peoples Club' for a very, very long time.
Last year Martinez had the benefit of the doubt from many fans as we had a very strenuous campaign juggling Europe, the league and what little we had of the Cups. This year however, we haven't had to play on a Thursday then on the Saturday/Sunday.
I do think he could be a good manager, our fans demand the best (some demand it by booing), to pass any blame onto the fans is ludicrous, should fans boo? Not a chance, should we make our feelings heard? Yes, but how do we do this when we have NO contact with the club? How do we make our feelings heard? In short we can't (except for the crowd at the old lady). The Peoples Club? Don't make me laugh, we haven't been 'The Peoples Club' for a very, very long time.
Someone has just suggested Tim Sherwood. Think it's time to go back to bed.
As one fan mentioned yesterday, this is a season with Leicester at the top combined with West Ham, Watford, Stoke and Palace sniffing about.
This was/is the season where with our squad success, or at least a high ranking in the league, was possible. Yet it's being totally squandered.
I'm open minded enough to understand it's not all Martinez's fault, but arguably large swathes of our problems eventually come back to him.
Be that picking Howard, our defensive setup, lack of confidence or our turgid, pace less play (at home at least) which is so easily neutralised.
Martinez has shown either an inability or unwillingness to adapt our play, so I can't see things miraculously changing over night in the long term.
One in ten wins in the league simply isn't good enough, especially with our squad, and last season adds more weight to the argument.
I don't like knee-jerk decisions to sack managers, however too many fans have lost confidence in him. Do the players feel the same? I don't know.
Who would we bring in? I don't know and that's obviously a worry, but staying with the status quo doesn't seem to be working.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
For me anyway, always thought Martinez 'got' Everton, the endless quotes about the Everton way, our History, School of Science etc, but analyze it further and maybe he never has done truly, ALL of the past achievements we have had whilst being pleasing on the eye and entertaining - at times for example the 85 team was breathtaking, where built upon solid foundations, a exceptional keeper, solid back four and players who all knew what their jobs where and that we played and defended as a team.
right now we have a clear disregard for all of that in favour of playing exciting football and letting players basically do what they want.
Would Kendall have stopped Stones expressing himself or Barkley or Deulofeu - ofc he wouldn't - but what he would have done is to stop them doing it in areas of the pitch that it is frankly retarded to do so in, he'd channel their instincts into expressing themselves in a way that benefits the team, Martinez just seems either unwilling to do so, unable to do so, or more worrying he is scared to actually do his job which is manage the players.
Right now their is no consequence for any senior player to messing up - not talking about a honest mistake that any player can make, i am talking here about doing something so boneheaded that it's absurd or things like not actually doing their job.
It's pie in the sky thinking but just imagine how a true top class manager would handle this group of players, the discipline they would try to instil in them, the organisation, right now we have Martinez who is just seemingly focused on an individual developing his own ability but without regard for them actually developing within the framework of the team. He is that terrified of damaging a players confidence or them losing faith in him that he is breeding overconfidence which is almost as bad a trait and losing the faith of some players without doubt - notably some of the more experienced ones who have seen a lot more and realise that he is spouting a lot of nonsense to the media (Baines, Barry and Jagielka have all contradicted Martinez statements within the past two months in their own interviews)
Honest to go i would take Mourinho here in an instant, with this group of players and say 30-40m added to it for a transfer window he would have them fighting for the title. Fair enough after 3 seasons it'd probably all go pear shaped - but would it even then be worse than what we are witnessing right now this season?
We haven't got a chance of that ofc, not that he would turn us down - because you never actually know what he would decide - the squad we have would tempt a lot of managers - especially one with a point to now prove - but because we as a club lack ambition from the Chairman right on down throughout the club, IF Martinez goes we will bring in another manager who has no record for success - purely because we as fans will accept this, the board want a man in charge they can 'manage', if you like a managerial version of Osman, Hibbert and Howard, McGeady - happy to be at the club because they realise that it won't ever get any better for them than right here, a club above their level but one that they can stay at as long as they want regardless of their own performance (under).
We are as a club at a crossroads now, do we continue to trust in a manager who knows exactly what he wants the team to be but is unable to actually get it their.
Martinez by the day is appearing a weaker and weaker manager, the decision to never criticise a player has gone now from support to one which just appears to be weak management, the sticking with senior players has gone from loyalty to blind faith ignoring all realities and most worrying ignoring the fans opinions and treating them as irrelevant - something in stark contrast to how he spoke about the club and players and fans being one in his early days.
Right now we are sitting on the titanic, a beautiful looking ship that everyone can marvel at, but one whose captain can't see the fact we are about to hit a big iceberg, but the band plays on
right now we have a clear disregard for all of that in favour of playing exciting football and letting players basically do what they want.
Would Kendall have stopped Stones expressing himself or Barkley or Deulofeu - ofc he wouldn't - but what he would have done is to stop them doing it in areas of the pitch that it is frankly retarded to do so in, he'd channel their instincts into expressing themselves in a way that benefits the team, Martinez just seems either unwilling to do so, unable to do so, or more worrying he is scared to actually do his job which is manage the players.
Right now their is no consequence for any senior player to messing up - not talking about a honest mistake that any player can make, i am talking here about doing something so boneheaded that it's absurd or things like not actually doing their job.
It's pie in the sky thinking but just imagine how a true top class manager would handle this group of players, the discipline they would try to instil in them, the organisation, right now we have Martinez who is just seemingly focused on an individual developing his own ability but without regard for them actually developing within the framework of the team. He is that terrified of damaging a players confidence or them losing faith in him that he is breeding overconfidence which is almost as bad a trait and losing the faith of some players without doubt - notably some of the more experienced ones who have seen a lot more and realise that he is spouting a lot of nonsense to the media (Baines, Barry and Jagielka have all contradicted Martinez statements within the past two months in their own interviews)
Honest to go i would take Mourinho here in an instant, with this group of players and say 30-40m added to it for a transfer window he would have them fighting for the title. Fair enough after 3 seasons it'd probably all go pear shaped - but would it even then be worse than what we are witnessing right now this season?
We haven't got a chance of that ofc, not that he would turn us down - because you never actually know what he would decide - the squad we have would tempt a lot of managers - especially one with a point to now prove - but because we as a club lack ambition from the Chairman right on down throughout the club, IF Martinez goes we will bring in another manager who has no record for success - purely because we as fans will accept this, the board want a man in charge they can 'manage', if you like a managerial version of Osman, Hibbert and Howard, McGeady - happy to be at the club because they realise that it won't ever get any better for them than right here, a club above their level but one that they can stay at as long as they want regardless of their own performance (under).
We are as a club at a crossroads now, do we continue to trust in a manager who knows exactly what he wants the team to be but is unable to actually get it their.
Martinez by the day is appearing a weaker and weaker manager, the decision to never criticise a player has gone now from support to one which just appears to be weak management, the sticking with senior players has gone from loyalty to blind faith ignoring all realities and most worrying ignoring the fans opinions and treating them as irrelevant - something in stark contrast to how he spoke about the club and players and fans being one in his early days.
Right now we are sitting on the titanic, a beautiful looking ship that everyone can marvel at, but one whose captain can't see the fact we are about to hit a big iceberg, but the band plays on
Hong Kong Phooey
Player Valuation: £8m
Apart from Del, then who knows. Rom found Steve Clarke attractive enough.
AussieToffee
Player Valuation: £8m
It's mind boggling to me that we are where we are with this squad.
Has to be the manager.
A cup double might buy him more time. Things are that bad imo!
Has to be the manager.
A cup double might buy him more time. Things are that bad imo!
.....just checked the 'next manager to leave' betting and RM is 25-1 with Skybet so suggesting replacements is probably a bit premature. Ladbrokes have us @ 200-1 to get relegated.
USABlue
Player Valuation: £70m
There is absolutely no way we'll be relegated
It's impossible not to blame Martinez this season.
You can't blame the players we have. Not even Howard, who is absurdly being blamed for every single goal we concede, has played badly enough to put us in this position. It's definitely not personnel. We have an amazing squad.
It's the system, and the total lack of regard for defensive organisation. The centre backs are put under ludicrous pressure not only to defend when we get stretched out of shape, but also to start all of our attacks. I bet Stones can't wait to get out of the door. It's maddening.
I'm not sure Martinez has what it takes to change this on his own. I'm not even sure he has what it takes to admit that and get help. But that will define whether he succeeds or fails for me.
You can't blame the players we have. Not even Howard, who is absurdly being blamed for every single goal we concede, has played badly enough to put us in this position. It's definitely not personnel. We have an amazing squad.
It's the system, and the total lack of regard for defensive organisation. The centre backs are put under ludicrous pressure not only to defend when we get stretched out of shape, but also to start all of our attacks. I bet Stones can't wait to get out of the door. It's maddening.
I'm not sure Martinez has what it takes to change this on his own. I'm not even sure he has what it takes to admit that and get help. But that will define whether he succeeds or fails for me.
Ashtonian
Banned on request
Think that is being lost on here mate. All the excuses last season including your man Dave were left on the Europa leagues doorstep. Fast forward a year and its still happening and another excuse has gone. Hell we went out of that competition mainly on a poor defensive display so again a running theme in all of this.
Right now Martinez has one game in 2 days to at least look to put something right this season. My concern is a cup win this season keeps him his job but we are all having the same conversations this time.next year.
KevMirallas
Player Valuation: £35m
Our problems are wholly mental. There is no questioning the technical ability of this team, which isn't something you could say about periods of the Moyes era.
But we're learning - as if we didn't already know it - that skill is absolutely nothing without the mental backing. I'm not sure Martinez is able to provide this.
I hope he is, and if he can get the team up to get a result in the semi on Wednesday then that is a serious feather in his cap.
But we're learning - as if we didn't already know it - that skill is absolutely nothing without the mental backing. I'm not sure Martinez is able to provide this.
I hope he is, and if he can get the team up to get a result in the semi on Wednesday then that is a serious feather in his cap.
....the bookies agree with you. 2 wins should just about see us safe.
USABlue
Player Valuation: £70m
Theres too much dross in the league and we score too many goals. Still think we'll finish around 8th -9th which is still underachieving and disappointing. Just not the end of the world. Hope a cup gives us something to build on
RFUS
Anustart
Very good point, I'd almost forgotten about. I never bought that excuse as our best seasons under Moyes (with smaller, weaker squads) were the ones in which we had European runs.
Martinez deflects blame because I think he just refuses to accept that his philosophy isn't infallible. Whilst we have had things go against us, with a crazy amount of injuries and refs being bells, these are just the icing on the cake. I have never seen an Everton team so mentally weak, and that responsibility falls at Roberto's door.
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