Roberto Martinez discussion

[Little Ralphy]

That's not the only point though. Yes Everton paid the price, wage demands and so on, but only because Martinez wanted him AND the fact they'd built a dcent relationship during the loan.

If you think Moyes would have gone for Lukaku i'd have to disagree.

He went for Yakubu. Also paid good money for Andy Johnson. Moyes didn't know what to do with strikers once he had them, but he was always looking for striking options and always prepared to pay good money for them.

 

[Allezfan]

That's not the only point though. Yes Everton paid the price, wage demands and so on, but only because Martinez wanted him AND the fact they'd built a dcent relationship during the loan.

If you think Moyes would have gone for Lukaku i'd have to disagree.

TBF there were rumours we were in for him when he went to west brom instead. I remember because I said I'd rather play Anichebe, which was not my best moment. So if we were interested under Moyes maybe it would have still happened under him, we'll never know.

 

[Lanolin]

You thought this system wasn't working in his first season here? Really?

Not did not work, will not work. The system undoubtedly worked well in the first season, but there were flaws in it which could be seen in many games throughout the season (lack of midfield creativity, susceptibility to over playing and losing the ball, lack of game management contributing, not making enough tackles). It shouldn't be too much of a surprise either, there were boos away at Palace and angry remonstrations with players because of the style of play, and i recall many people being unhappy with the fact we failed to score in 4/5 of our first 10 games. We had a couple of fantastic runs which got rid of any concerns for most, but the signs were still there.

I hoped that he would tinker with the way we set up after the first season and he has, but unfortunately he's tinkered with the wrong things (ie our defensive structure) rather than the things I had hoped.

 

[willo30]

That's not the only point though. Yes Everton paid the price, wage demands and so on, but only because Martinez wanted him AND the fact they'd built a dcent relationship during the loan.

If you think Moyes would have gone for Lukaku i'd have to disagree.

If I remember correctly Martinez didn't go for Lukaku. He wanted Reme didn't he but was offered Lukaku instead.

 

[ijjysmith]

He went for Yakubu. Also paid good money for Andy Johnson. Moyes didn't know what to do with strikers once he had them, but he was always looking for striking options and always prepared to pay good money for them.

TBF there were rumours we were in for him when he went to west brom instead. I remember because I said I'd rather play Anichebe, which was not my best moment. So if we were interested under Moyes maybe it would have still happened under him, we'll never know.

We'll never know if course. But I don't think anyone is saying it's 'just Martinez' why these players have come here. It's him and the fact we are Everton.

 

[ijjysmith]

If I remember correctly Martinez didn't go for Lukaku. He wanted Reme didn't he but was offered Lukaku instead.

Think it was Ba we went for but got Lukaku.

Point still stands in the long run.

 

[Allezfan]

We'll never know if course. But I don't think anyone is saying it's 'just Martinez' why these players have come here. It's him and the fact we are Everton.

I feel like the fact that martinez has bought good players and convinced them to come here is a point in his favour, regardless tbh. I like having good players at this club and if our manager can buy good strikers and good midfielders than that's a useful skill for him to have. It's something that a hell of a lot of premier league managers can't do.

 

[Ashtonian]

Is he really though? He doesn't do any more with the Academy than Moyes did. In terms of bringing in youngsters, Everton have always done this. Just Moyes used to bring in strikers and Martinez brings in defenders. The only one who has come in and done something so far is Galloway.

When Moyes first came he also lowered the age of the squad so he could work with a younger side.

I don't want Moyes before anyone says, but I think people think Martinez is doing all these great things behind the scenes when in truth he's not doing a whole lot more than anyone else has done before him.

moyes played vellios for 2 games, dropped barkley for like 6 months for no reason, and apart from rodwell and anichebe has no youth players to really atick by. remember he loaned dier as well but put him nowhere near the team.

Compare that to;

Barkley first team
Stones first team
Galloway first team
Deleufeu first team

all teenagers within a year given first team places.

 

[hktoffee]

Liverpool are 7th, 5 points ahead of us with a much worse goal difference.

Do I think we can close a 5 point gap on that rabble, or West Ham? Yes, I do.

We'll need to perform better, and get a bit of luck (e.g. a half decent ref would have seen us be only 3 points behind Liverpool...) but I definitely think we can do it

What make you think we can suddenly win games and those teams all drop points so that we can overtake them? We win 6 games this season from 23 so far.

 

[Allezfan]

moyes played vellios for 2 games, dropped barkley for like 6 months for no reason, and apart from rodwell and anichebe has no youth players to really atick by. remember he loaned dier as well but put him nowhere near the team.

Compare that to;

Barkley first team
Stones first team
Galloway first team
Deleufeu first team

all teenagers within a year given first team places.

Yeah I think martinez has been better with youth than moyes. Barkley being the ultimate example.

It's also worth noting that we are using the loan system for kids much more under martinez. Moyes for instance had duffy in his last year, never played him and also never sent him out on loan. That doesn't happen udner Martinez, kids either get games or they go somewhere else where they will.

 

[Allezfan]

What make you think we can suddenly win games and those teams all drop points so that we can overtake them? We win 6 games this season from 23 so far.

Teams sometimes do have uptakes in form. All he's saying is that if we do, we're not so far behind that top 6 is impossible. That's true. Big if but again, it's not like everton haven't gone on mad runs before after not playing all that well.

 

[Little Ralphy]

moyes played vellios for 2 games, dropped barkley for like 6 months for no reason, and apart from rodwell and anichebe has no youth players to really atick by. remember he loaned dier as well but put him nowhere near the team.

Compare that to;

Barkley first team
Stones first team
Galloway first team
Deleufeu first team

all teenagers within a year given first team places.

That's not what we were discussing to be fair. I guess this is what happens on a forum but he was talking about youth set up. I was referring to players that are bought as part of that. No one mentioned the first team other than me saying both managers lowered the average age of the side. In fairness our current side isn't all that young either.

What about Rooney anyway?

You've also mentioned there Moyes using Academy players vs Martinez using players he bought. Moyes did buy youngsters, just mostly strikers and most didn't work out. I remember Alan Irvine telling me once that Moyes would ideally have about 10 strikers to choose from, which I found amazing considering he never knew how to use them.

 

[toffee matt]

It was peaks a troughs to be fair

It was great against sides like Arsenal but was torrid against sides like West Brom and Cardiff

Part of the success relies on the opposing team chasing for the ball, and a lot of lesser sides seem happy now to just sit back and watch the passing. Swansea did that in the second half on Sunday for instance

That issue has always been there, it just didn't happen so much in the first season because teams hadn't sussed it out yet

We were more aggressive than what were being now though.

Watch the games from November/ December 2013 compared to now and the difference is staggering

 

[BlueToff]

I feel like you vastly overestimate our board, tbh.

I'm not bringing the board into it mate as clearly, unless we maintain a CL place, then the best players will leave.

It's the idea that we are building something - not with money - but by putting in place a style of play and players will develop into that style. Look at Dowell and Ledson as upcoming examples, Kenny also.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't see beating the bottom two sides in the league as turning a corner or indeed scraping past the 3rd bottom team.

Well we lost to Sunderland when they were in the same position last season mate... We looked like we did in our first season under RM - rampant at times - like we did vs Chelsea and Sotton.