Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

Crack open the champers. We beat Norwich (on pens after a draw), Middlesbrough, Reading and Barnsley (3-5...)

We got there, did we not? Liverpool scraped past Carlisle on pens, Stoke on pens etc. City had all their games at home against Sunderland, Palace and Hull. You have to beat who you get in the draw. A cup run is a cup run...

With respect, I don't care.

The points total, and league position is all that matters.

We're 12th after 23 games, the exact same position as last season after 23 games.

We're 12th because that's where we deserve to be, and that's not good enough.

Yes, I agree, the table doesn't lie. But just because it happened last season, it doesn't mean it's going to happen again. Last season we scored 48 goals in total by the end of the campaign. This season we already have 48. That suggests to me that, while last season we had a poor attack and defence, that if (and it's a big if) we can solidify at the back (which we had looked to be doing vs Spurs, City (x2) etc...) then we will rise up the table as we are doing the job at the other end.


Maybe speak to a Newcastle fan who'll tell you about how lucky we were to leave Newcastle with a win...

You're talking about a game or two, I'm referring to all last season and the other 20 odd games this season.

Eh? Come on mate, you're reasonable. We were much the better side last night, everybody said so. Newcastle created two opportunities on target that they should have scored. They didn't. And at the end, within the given time range and without a dodgy ref decision to help us, we scored. Luck, but we deserved that luck after a good display.

I've admitted that the results haven't been up to standard on the whole in the league. But that doesn't mean I think we should sack our manager in the middle of the season, especially as there is not one manager that I believe would definitely improve us that is available at this moment in time.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

How do you know there is a lack of drilling? No fan has any clue what's going on in training?

No, but his current and former players detail his training methods. An example would be Leon Osman's book.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

No, but his current and former players detail his training methods. An example would be Leon Osman's book.

Which I just quoted for him, and he predictably swerved it.

 

[Tubey]

No, but his current and former players detail his training methods. An example would be Leon Osman's book.

Not only that; Leighton Baines on commentary that time, when he said he had no clue how they would mark up for a corner.

 

[jayden28]

1 win in 11 with this great squad making the same mistakes week after week says you are talking tosh my friend

He thinks we're progressing!!,someone tell him he's not at wigan anymore,making us look small time with the crap that he's coming out with.

 

[BlueToff]

My original point was that saying that we were 'penniless' as an excuse to cover Martinez obvious under achievement was a nonsense.

As Pochettino has moved Spurs forward with a negative net spend. I could have chucked Leicester in there, or Watford, or Palace - who've all done better with less resources at their disposal. And their managers haven't taken 2 1/2 years to put together a side that doesn't leak like a sieve.

I have never claimed that as an excuse mate (I know your OP was not directed at me btw), and I won't. He's spent money.

Leicester are on a freak run. There's 19 other teams below them as well. It's an anomaly that we may not see again for some time. Palace have spent a fair whack as well, don't fool yourself, as have Watford to an extent. They're two and three points above us respectively...

 

[ijjysmith]

Not only that; Leighton Baines on commentary that time, when he said he had no clue how they would mark up for a corner.

Sake. I'd forgotten that. I'd was literally gobsmacked.

 

[BlueToff]

No, but his current and former players detail his training methods. An example would be Leon Osman's book.

That was published a year and a half ago? I'll admit, I wasn't thrilled with the method either, but we do not know what is currently been done. Given our displays against Spurs and City just after the turn of the year, it looked to have changed somewhat...

 

[BlueToff]

Which I just quoted for him, and he predictably swerved it.

Where mate? I'm trying to get to every alert - I've got 19 of them. Spent some time replying to GOT's post...

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I have never claimed that as an excuse mate (I know your OP was not directed at me btw), and I won't. He's spent money.

Leicester are on a freak run. There's 19 other teams below them as well. It's an anomaly that we may not see again for some time. Palace have spent a fair whack as well, don't fool yourself, as have Watford to an extent. They're two and three points above us respectively...

I'd take a 'freak run' of 23 games mate.

The other 2 are sides that have just come up from the Championship, so of course they've spent some money, but way less than us gross.

Should either of those sides be above this Everton side? come off it mate, he's massively under achieved so far this season, for the second season running. The cup run deflected attention away from the stark reality of that, now the fog has cleared people are rightly starting to question his wretched philosophy and his record as Everton manager.

He's turned us into a side that can flatter to deceive. We can have spells of brilliance, but then because of the way he sets them up, we're as brittle as toffee and one of the easiest sides in the league to get at.

 

[BlueToff]

1 win in 11 with this great squad making the same mistakes week after week says you are talking tosh my friend

I don't believe it does. Is that league games?

I think that we've had way too many draws, sometimes down to bad defending (Palace), sometimes down to poor finishing (Norwich) and sometimes bad luck (Chelsea), or a combination of them all.

I think our defeats in that time (vs. top of the league Leicester, vs. in-form Stoke) have been a combination of all three of them as well.

I'll admit that the results haven't been good enough, but I'm willing to stick with him. I'm not trying to sway your opinions, i'm trying to present a balanced argument because, yes, I believe that he is still the right man for the job, and we should re-evaluate in the summer.

It seems that if you don't agree with the crowd, you get crucified.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I'll admit that the results haven't been good enough, but I'm willing to stick with him. I'm not trying to sway your opinions, i'm trying to present a balanced argument because, yes, I believe that he is still the right man for the job, and we should re-evaluate in the summer.

It seems that if you don't agree with the crowd, you get crucified.

I think most would agree with waiting until the summer now. But if we finish around where we are now, then it should be adios.

 

[bluewally]

I don't believe it does. Is that league games?

I think that we've had way too many draws, sometimes down to bad defending (Palace), sometimes down to poor finishing (Norwich) and sometimes bad luck (Chelsea), or a combination of them all.

I think our defeats in that time (vs. top of the league Leicester, vs. in-form Stoke) have been a combination of all three of them as well.

I'll admit that the results haven't been good enough, but I'm willing to stick with him. I'm not trying to sway your opinions, i'm trying to present a balanced argument because, yes, I believe that he is still the right man for the job, and we should re-evaluate in the summer.

It seems that if you don't agree with the crowd, you get crucified.

No body is crucifying you. It's a debate and you are currently in the minority. If he pulls it off you will look great.

My question is what has he achieved that makes you think he is the right man for the job?

It's an honest question because I cant see it.

 

[Tubey]

I think most would agree with waiting until the summer now. But if we finish around where we are now, then it should be adios.

Not me. I don't think it matters what we do from here on in - the mark of a good manager and a good team is what you do when something hinges on the result, not when the season is dead in the water.

I had enough of crap starts under Moyes, disguised by late resurgences, to give the chancer in charge now any get out of jail card.

 

[BlueToff]

I'd take a 'freak run' of 23 games mate.

The other 2 are sides that have just come up from the Championship, so of course they've spent some money, but way less than us gross.

Should either of those sides be above this Everton side? come off it mate, he's massively under achieved so far this season, for the second season running. The cup run deflected attention away from the stark reality of that, now the fog has cleared people are rightly starting to question his wretched philosophy and his record as Everton manager.

He's turned us into a side that can flatter to deceive. We can have spells of brilliance, but then because of the way he sets them up, we're as brittle as toffee and one of the easiest sides in the league to get at.

It's freak in the sense that nobody would have expected it... that nobody would have expected us or any other team to do what they've done. Sometimes you've got to hold your hands up and say fair play, and not compare us to them.

Second point, that's wrong. Watford have just come up yes. Palace have been in the league now for the past two and a half seasons. I'd say they're becoming an established side.

The cup run did not deflect anything for me. I wanted us to win a cup, it's a shame we couldn't manage to get over the penultimate hurdle against the best and most expensively assembled team in the country. If the cup run was merely a distraction, then why are people getting so wound up because we went out of it? Surely, by your logic, it should be null and void just like our victories in it were?

Yes, we can flatter to deceive. We were even more guilty of that towards the end of the Moyes era.