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Roberto Martinez discussion

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BlueToff said:
Yes, but one of the major factors in us not getting results in the past two away games against two of the best/most expensive teams is down to poor officiating when we needed them to do their job on obvious, clear-cut decisions. That's a fact mate
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If you honestly think that if the referee had given a goal kick in the City game, we'd have gone on to win the tie I'll take your word for it.Truth is if you can't defend you don't get results.
 
bluewally said:
No body is crucifying you. It's a debate and you are currently in the minority. If he pulls it off you will look great.

My question is what has he achieved that makes you think he is the right man for the job?

It's an honest question because I cant see it.
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Not on here mate, but i've been called retarded on social media feeds, i've had dm's calling me a W****r etc. I'm not bothered really, I can cope with it as if not i wouldn't put my opinion out there. Just seems if you don't share a view-point, or you're saying that if people use stats and quotes (like they do, rightly so) they should be used in context and in full, then you get accused of making excuses.

Back to your question, at the age of 20, I was never lucky (like many of us) to see the team of the 80s. I can remember as far back as Rooney's goal vs Arsenal. In that time, I have never seen my team play with such an exciting style and class that this team currently do. That is down to Martinez.

Of course, the main problem is the defence. My point is that, I'm still willing to wait until the summer to see how this goes. I don't believe we will get relegated. I'm not saying we're too good to go down, I just don't believe it will happen. I don't think now, with three days left in the window, and the season in the balance, is the time to sack our manager. I believe the summer is when we must re-assess either way.
 
mascoq66700 said:
If you honestly think that if the referee had given a goal kick in the City game, we'd have gone on to win the tie I'll take your word for it.Truth is if you can't defend you don't get results.
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No, I didn't say that. I said we were holding our own, i've said it numerous times. I've also admitted we were riding our luck.

I think that the least you can expect when playing in a semi-final against the best team in the country (who have the luxury of bringing on one of the best players in Europe from their bench), is that you're going to have to defend and probably have a bit of luck to not concede.

However, you do not expect that a referee of the experience of Atkinson would miss something so blindingly obvious.
 
BlueToff said:
Not on here mate, but i've been called retarded on social media feeds, i've had dm's calling me a W****r etc. I'm not bothered really, I can cope with it as if not i wouldn't put my opinion out there. Just seems if you don't share a view-point, or you're saying that if people use stats and quotes (like they do, rightly so) they should be used in context and in full, then you get accused of making excuses.

Back to your question, at the age of 20, I was never lucky (like many of us) to see the team of the 80s. I can remember as far back as Rooney's goal vs Arsenal. In that time, I have never seen my team play with such an exciting style and class that this team currently do. That is down to Martinez.

Of course, the main problem is the defence. My point is that, I'm still willing to wait until the summer to see how this goes. I don't believe we will get relegated. I'm not saying we're too good to go down, I just don't believe it will happen. I don't think now, with three days left in the window, and the season in the balance, is the time to sack our manager. I believe the summer is when we must re-assess either way.
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But sacking in the summer isn't ideal. A lot of the squad will be away at the euros. Any new manager won't be able to properly assess his squad until the start of the season and may be stuck with last minute transfers.

If we get a new man in now he can build a relationship with the players, assess the squad and have a plan for the summer
 
TheHumbleEgg said:
I CAN argue with it mate, and it's easy to - as depressing as that is (and I don't mean that in a condescending way mate) - because, simply, this is the form and the way of the man. I implore, look over his previous. He will not, EVER, deviate from his philosophy. In an odd way I admire his commitment to it, it's admirable in a skewed yet ultimately damaging way. But that philosophy will NEVER fit in with the prem league because it's almost all (his philosophy) based around attacking football, yes? And in turn that poses huge problems because teams with similar attacking capabilities (coupled with defensive prowess) can take us apart almost at will. It's no coincidence that what we've beaten of late (league wise) reside in the bottom of the division, know why...it's because they're pretty much lacking the firepower of all the others, ergo struggle to score...

As for the CHELSEA game mate, I'll say it again...we were 2-0 up and in a position to kill the game.

We didn't kill the game.

We DON'T kill games. And we very, VERY rarely win them either. That's the crux of it really...
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I've admitted, we messed up in that 2 minutes that they scored 2 goals in. Martinez also said that after the game.

He was also right in saying that we did very well to then shut them out for a further 10 minutes and then go and score ourselves, and we then killed the game, and it's a fact that had the referee and linesman done their job and made a correct call on a clear-cut offside, that we would have won that game.
 

bluewally said:
But sacking in the summer isn't ideal. A lot of the squad will be away at the euros. Any new manager won't be able to properly assess his squad until the start of the season and may be stuck with last minute transfers.

If we get a new man in now he can build a relationship with the players, assess the squad and have a plan for the summer
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But my point is that there is no manager out there that anybody (who is suggesting Martinez should go) has yet named that would be available to take over us right now. Bielsa is the only one, and he is a complete and utter nut-job and there's no guarantee he'd come here.

A new manager would have a lot more time in the summer than they would now mate.
 
BlueToff said:
I've admitted, we messed up in that 2 minutes that they scored 2 goals in. Martinez also said that after the game.

He was also right in saying that we did very well to then shut them out for a further 10 minutes and then go and score ourselves, and we then killed the game, and it's a fact that had the referee and linesman done their job and made a correct call on a clear-cut offside, that we would have won that game.
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Yet if we knew how to manage games in a leading position and did what we should have done and not given away two goals in quickfire succession from a dominant position, then that offside goal wouldn't have mattered.

Fact is, due to having a manager who does not know how to manage games or set up a team to defend, we through away a winning position and made ourselves susceptible to that late equaliser in a game that should have been dead and buried.

And that's the problem. Sure, we sometimes play great attacking football - in bursts. As soon as those bursts are gone, if we haven't scored four during it, we're never feeling like we're in command of a game.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
I think most would agree with waiting until the summer now. But if we finish around where we are now, then it should be adios.
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I agree with you there mate. Give him until the summer, or the next few months at least. If the results haven't improved and we finish around where we are now (barring an FA Cup success - i'd take that and top 10 as reasonable), then by all means get rid.
 
BlueToff said:
But my point is that there is no manager out there that anybody (who is suggesting Martinez should go) has yet named that would be available to take over us right now. Bielsa is the only one, and he is a complete and utter nut-job and there's no guarantee he'd come here.

A new manager would have a lot more time in the summer than they would now mate.
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Regardless of who the manager is the league season is over so when I say time I'm talking about the rest of the season not the transfer window.
 
My first post on this mammoth thread, 2300 pages long, so I'll likely repeat an earlier post...sorry...

Anyway, with regard to Martinez, how does one who watches so much football, per his own admission, not be able to read an opposition teams set plays and prepare for them?

:Blink:
 

BiggyRat said:
My first post on this mammoth thread, 2300 pages long, so I'll likely repeat an earlier post...sorry...

Anyway, with regard to Martinez, how does one who watches so much football, per his own admission, not be able to read an opposition teams set plays and prepare for them?

:Blink:
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i watch loads and i wouldnt have a clue either, i have no idea why we concede loads of goals besides howard doing a stupid, if im honest im not sure i understand footaball that well
 
Tubey said:
Yet if we knew how to manage games in a leading position and did what we should have done and not given away two goals in quickfire succession from a dominant position, then that offside goal wouldn't have mattered.

Fact is, due to having a manager who does not know how to manage games or set up a team to defend, we through away a winning position and made ourselves susceptible to that late equaliser in a game that should have been dead and buried.

And that's the problem. Sure, we sometimes play great attacking football - in bursts. As soon as those bursts are gone, if we haven't scored four during it, we're never feeling like we're in command of a game.
Click to expand...

Erm, well there's no guarantee of that is there. There was plenty of time between when they equalised and when they scored that offside goal. Even if they hadn't had levelled when they had, they could have come back at us late on... bare in mind it is Chelsea we're talking about. Yes they've been poor this season, but it's not like they'd had rolled over had we been able to 'kill the game' anyway. They'd have been coming at us whatever...

Also, we threw the 1st goal away due to a dreadful piece of defending with Jagileka and Howard failing to deal with a long ball. That was nothing to do with how we set up or our style of play at all. It's two experienced players failing to deal with the simple stuff.

Second goal, was poor marking and they got a shot off which took a wicked deflection. A bit of bad luck but mainly down to defending.

We do all we can from then on to win a game against the champions at their place. We score, and we play an excellent offside trap to get Terry caught offside. The officials didn't do their job.

That's for that instance.

I agree with your last point, it does seem we need to be three up before we can relax in any way. Hopefully that can change. We killed the game excellently in the last 15 minutes against City after Lukaku had scored, for example, as we did against Chelsea, WBA and Sotton earlier in the season, so the evidence is there that we can do it at least.
 

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