Roberto Martinez discussion

[lancs blue]

Martinez's head has gone. He needs a break poor chap lol

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

To me mate, honestly, that is MONTHS past even being worthy of debate.

It would be easier to take for fans if we were 12th with a crap squad of players as oppose what we are (in relative terms) suffering with at the moment.

Think someone needs to get a grip of Martinez and do this:

 

[vagant59]

That's what people do in life, in business, in work. Talk fluff and tell you what you want to hear to get a job. Did you believe Jesus Christ could manage a penniless Everton into the CL, let alone a Wigan Manager?

This is not a penniless Everton, and the age of the players is irrelevant as most of them are more or less middle aged in footballing terms.

 

[Axlswhk]

This bit is a highlight



If doesn't pick it up 4minutes.

Can't help noticing he touch his right eyebrow every time before he start telling porkies

 

[Spocks-a-Blue]

Think someone needs to get a grip of Martinez and do this:

I wondered why I was feeling a little bit odd! I'm still Martinez in (probably more aspirational than rational at this point) but I am deeply unhappy that he is put us all at each others' throats and his continued backing of players lacking form, chief among them Howard, sometimes makes me think that he isn't a football manager but more a modern day version of Don Quixote. And, at the end of the day, I support Everton so I am very sympathetic to those who want him gone yesterday and if he were to be sacked, I don't see how he could have any doubts that he was the willing architect of his own demise. Anyways, be good to one another fellow Blues, because God knows that no one else is going to be!

 

[Smodger]

We are not under-achieving haha god knows What he's telling the players.

 

[Ihaters]

This season alone, but no need to change much lads

For a specially edited to make Howard look bad video, that's really not that bad, and largely shows how poor our defence is.
Where that video ends though, is the perfect example of something that annoys me about RM's version of defending. Run it to the end and look at that paused frame on 29 seconds....

8 Everton defenders and a goal keeper v 5 Chelsea players, you'd be forgiven if one or two managed to evade their man, but they pretty much didn't have a man to start with and all 5 are in clear space.

In fact a few screen shots of positions during some of those goals...

1.

6 players.. 5 defenders and a keeper back.
* First issue.. how the hell did the single striker get the ball, they always seem to be able to do this
* Second issue.. If Howard saves it and parries it.. why is no one alert to the player coming in on the edge of the box that is on his own, or indeed the players on the edge of the picture that have acres of space to run into?, our guys are are just watching the shot that should never of happened in the first place.


2.

8 v 5.. to be fair, we got reasonably close to one of them.. though he did score.

1. Same again, why are we close to no one
2. Why didn't Howard collect
3. If its cleared of the line or a defensive header intercepts it before they score, it almost certainly goes to a red shirt

3. The one I mentioned earlier

7 v 5 and guess what.. all but the goal scorer are unmarked. Its great we close down the goal scorers, but any parries are very likely to go to an opponent in acres of space.

Its not the worst part of our defending but its too common for my liking and something we should work on.

Also, since when did all our players start getting drawn to the ball but not actually go for it.

Been plenty of counter attacks this year where two players have attacked, and a simple pass releases the second unmarked player because everyone has headed to the guy with the ball.

My biggest gripe though is simply not closing down and tackling, we just don't do it.

 

[mkrudden]

It's very funny to read this thread.
It's so football manager like it's untrue.

"We deserve better"
Do we? Based on what? What have we won since 1995 that warrants any exclamation that we are a big, successful club?

"The players are underachieving"
Based on what? Individual talent? Football manager-type scores out of 20 per attribute?

"The manager is using ridiculous excuses"
Phantom goals, offside decisions aside. What about the fact that we've been missing our legs in midfield, Besic and McCarthy for a fair few of the 20+ games weve played so far? Or should the mighty Everton have a third dynamic player waiting in the wings ready to do a good job?

"The players aren't learning".
The players are people. People lose confidence when things that were going for them no longer are. E.g. John Stones. Everything he does at the moment looks a consequence of second guessing himself. He has to ride it out. There is no other option for a player of his potential. Lukaku has hit a dry patch and its affecting his decision making (Swansea). They ARE learning. that's exactly the point. It just won't take 1 game.

"What if we lose some of these players?!"

So? We are bigger than any player. For clubs who can afford top quality, seasoned internationals to complement younger heads like Lukaku, that can only help them improve. We can't afford that. We have to play more kids than is appropriate. Anyone got 250milllion in their current account to remedy this?

"The manager talks guff".

Yep. They all do.
Sometimes though, he talks sense. Like today. But don't let a call for patience based on an appreciation of our heritage and understanding of young players and their failings get in the way of a good fume eh?

As you were lads. Like a scene from the walking dead in here.

 

[Blu Bianco]

Think someone needs to get a grip of Martinez and do this:

Correct.

All this excuse making and running to the referees for a (may I have a) meeting is not helping. He needs to toughen up, say things as they are, admit things and be prepared for an FA sanction or two if needs be. He's like an ineffectual father, well meaning but too soft and as a result, instensely frustrated as to why he's not being taken seriously.

The more he makes excuses, the more it will play into the hands of the media, its music to their ears. We will continue to be portrayed, with even more emphasis now, as moaners, too soft both on and off the pitch and 'plucky little Everton'.

But all of this has a wider and more serious implication for the fans though too, I think. We generally have a good reputation amongst the other sets of fans (save the odd few) but if this keeps going the way it is then other teams and fans are going to see us this way and use it against us constantly. We are that soft that even Atkinson was getting the digs in on Wednesday! The atmosphere at the Etihad on Wednesday was distinctly unfriendly and although there has always been some tension, the recent way in which RM has been 'dealing' with matters certainly hasn't helped how we are being seen in a wider context.

 

[Dymak]

Just seen that press conference video. I can't bloody believe it. Apparently languishing in the bottom half with the best squad since the 80's isn't underachieving because we haven't won the league recently. He will be telling us that finishing in the top half is a massive achievement for a club like Everton next. Where the hell is our ambition?

 

[BlueStevie35]

We are not under-achieving haha god knows What he's telling the players.

Probably a lot different to what he is perceiving in public, he's trying to put a bravado on to the media but you can see with every passing week how much the strain is showing. If he is to go I think the guy could do with taking a long break from the game before he even thinks of taking another job

 

[Saint Domingo]

To me mate, honestly, that is MONTHS past even being worthy of debate.

It would be easier to take for fans if we were 12th with a crap squad of players as oppose what we are (in relative terms) suffering with at the moment.

I see after all the patronising abuse you took for calling this out earlier not one poster has come forward and said that it was over the top. Instead there was premature gloating after a win at home v the bottom of the league, merciless mocking when we made a quarter final of the league cup, and constantly being called a bad fan, football idiot, or FIFA fanboy beaut. No doubt it will all come out again should we win even one game.

The problems of the last 18 months have been clear to see, there's always time to turn it around but just denying it to maintain an image of 'I'm right' was childish. It shouldn't take a cup exit to City to make it OK to call out 18 months of consistent underachievement. Hopefully next time views outside of the party line will be better treated.

 

[vagant59]

Not on here mate, but i've been called retarded on social media feeds, i've had dm's calling me a W****r etc. I'm not bothered really, I can cope with it as if not i wouldn't put my opinion out there. Just seems if you don't share a view-point, or you're saying that if people use stats and quotes (like they do, rightly so) they should be used in context and in full, then you get accused of making excuses.

Back to your question, at the age of 20, I was never lucky (like many of us) to see the team of the 80s. I can remember as far back as Rooney's goal vs Arsenal. In that time, I have never seen my team play with such an exciting style and class that this team currently do. That is down to Martinez.

Of course, the main problem is the defence. My point is that, I'm still willing to wait until the summer to see how this goes. I don't believe we will get relegated. I'm not saying we're too good to go down, I just don't believe it will happen. I don't think now, with three days left in the window, and the season in the balance, is the time to sack our manager. I believe the summer is when we must re-assess either way.

I think that you have not grasped the complete picture as regards football. Any of the teams in the Prem. could play the attacking football that we play if they were to abandon the defensive side of the game. For us to be successful we are going to have to curb that attacking play and organize ourselves defensively, much like the clubs above us

 

[ianefc]

I see after all the patronising abuse you took for calling this out earlier not one poster has come forward and said that it was over the top. Instead there was premature gloating after a win at home v the bottom of the league, merciless mocking when we made a quarter final of the league cup, and constantly being called a bad fan, football idiot, or FIFA fanboy beaut. No doubt it will all come out again should we win even one game.

The problems of the last 18 months have been clear to see, there's always time to turn it around but just denying it to maintain an image of 'I'm right' was childish. It shouldn't take a cup exit to City to make it OK to call out 18 months of consistent underachievement. Hopefully next time views outside of the party line will be better treated.

I suppose we are all stubborn as individuals. I know I am.

The worst one was constantly being told that I/we wanted Everton to lose to suit some agenda. Pathetic at best was that accusation.

 

[BlueToff]

You are entitled to your opinion my friend and you come across very well with a balanced argument.
But a lot of fans can now see through the manager and are very worried.
It looks like his 1st season was more down to how moyes had instilled the defensive side of the game into the players as much as the tactics.
With a weak useless board and a clueless sinking manager i worry for the future

Cheers.

I understand the concerns, I really do. I'm just not getting over-board with them yet.

Btw, that last point in bold, I think @StanleyParker de-bunked that theory with some stats last night. We conceded quite a bit less in RM's first season than in Moyes' last.