Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Isn't that just the match thread though mate, think this thread has legs for being open providing the debate is sound.

A lot of what's been said and going round in circles hasn't been though, from both sides of the fence. Nothing wrong with a good debate about the manager not everyone is going to be pleased, like from the sounds of it you didnt like Moyes.

It's not a consistent thing though. If we win this thread is all but deserted - so it very definitely is one that just reflects the levels of fume of a corp of discontented people. It's not a rounded thread at all. That's possibly because the post that kicked it all off was so ridiculous - in the sense that it jumped the gun by about three years - that it's always lent itself to one of reaction and not reflection.

It hasn't happened a lot because we haven't had consecutive mid table/bottom half finishes for god knows how long

...we still haven't.

Is that why stones handed in a transfer request?

...and got told 'no'...and he's still here and will remain here.

That's your opinion (not fact).

My opinion (not fact) is that he is not a manager. He's a great attacking coach and has an eye for a player. He is missing parts from his game that he either thinks he doesn't need or is too stubborn to sort it.

You also point to being better the last 5 games but this has been said a few times over the last 18 months when it looked like we were turning corner only to go back to square one.

My overall opinion of him is he tries to do it his way until it gets to a point he has to change it to get results. He will then revert back to type when the chance arises though.

It's not 5 games though it's the start of the year. The 'attacking coach' with parts missing from his game has seen his team concede 8 times in 12 games. He's the same coach that oversaw a season when we conceded 39 goals.

In truth he's a much more rounded coach than you're giving him credit for.

 

[Goat]

Well there goes any chance Peace had.

 

[Lanolin]

Funny reading about guardiolas comments Last night about his game management two nil up and cruising and drawing and saying team has youngsters they will learn. And him saying he was very happy with how the game went .can imagine if Roberto had said that what the reaction would be

Very true. Not sure if you're familiar with bayern fans views on guardiola but they are far from sold on him so those comments won't have gone down well there either.

 

[bluewally]

...and got told 'no'...and he's still here and will remain here.

If he's bought in to Martinez why was a no even needed?

 

[stretford blue]

Very true. Not sure if you're familiar with bayern fans views on guardiola but they are far from sold on him so those comments won't have gone down well there either.

Funny when I was watching the game just reminded me when we played Norwich brilliant first half should have been 2 or 3 up and just let them back into the game

 

[bluewally]

It's not a consistent thing though. If we win this thread is all but deserted - so it very definitely is one that just reflects the levels of fume of a corp of discontented people

60 pages of comments since last win. Hardly deserted

 

[Brendan Janus]

Now that's what I call deserted !

 

[willo30]

It's not 5 games though it's the start of the year. The 'attacking coach' with parts missing from his game has seen his team concede 8 times in 12 games. He's the same coach that oversaw a season when we conceded 39 goals.

In truth he's a much more rounded coach than you're giving him credit for.

And has gotten worse season on season since. Does that not concern you at all?

He needs to deliver over a season and not just 2 months to get more credit from me. As I alluded to he can alter his principals to get results when he wants to but then slips back into his tried and untested ways once again.

 

[BlueToff]

I honestly think you've got me all wrong mate. Don't tell the mods, but I use this thread like a general performance thread rather than Martinez specifically. Most of my comments are about the team performance, not just the manager.

It does seem to me that some fans are so relentlessly positive, and so convinced that everything's moving in the right direction, that they fail to see a lot of the negatives.

I'm not suggesting Howard had to make unbelievable saves against Sunderland, any more than I'm saying an equaliser (or even winner) against west brom would have been undeserved. What I'm debating against is the seemingly one eyed bias views that have some people claiming that every setback can be explained by poor refereeing/inexplicable misses/general bad luck, while seeing every good result as totally deserved. It's laughable. Unfortunately some of your posts today have been that way, just looking at the what ifs from our POV. I'm not being negative, simply pointing out that it works both ways and we've had our share of luck.

Okay well fair enough I wasn't meaning to come across with that point.

I'm far from relentlessly positives and have stated many times that the results need to improve and that is equally down to the team as it is Martinez.

My general point that I kind of lost was that it can't all be down to RM's system when we still create so many chances. I know, if's and but's, but had we put even half of the chances (and I'm not talking long-range shots, I'm talking sitters) away against the likes of Palace, Norwich (away), Swansea at home, we'd be in such a different position. But we didn't and we're not, and it has to improve.

 

[bluewally]

And has gotten worse season on season since. Does that not concern you at all?

He needs to deliver over a season and not just 2 months to get more credit from me. As I alluded to he can alter his principals to get results when he wants to but then slips back into his tried and untested ways once again.

I can t have that his ways are definitely tested, they just fail more often than not

 

[willo30]

I can t have that his ways are definitely tested, they just fail more often than not

That's why I said tried and untested.

 

[bluewally]

That's why I said tried and untested.

unproven perhaps. Sorry just being pedantic now

 

[toffeeblue9]

And has gotten worse season on season since. Does that not concern you at all?

He needs to deliver over a season and not just 2 months to get more credit from me. As I alluded to he can alter his principals to get results when he wants to but then slips back into his tried and untested ways once again.

Personally, I'd say this season feels better than last season.

Performances are better, we're 7 points better off after 26 games than we were last season and we've done better in the cups too.

I'm not for a moment trying to say this has been a successful season, but it wouldn't be at all correct to say we have got worse season on season.

 

[davek]

And has gotten worse season on season since. Does that not concern you at all?

He needs to deliver over a season and not just 2 months to get more credit from me. As I alluded to he can alter his principals to get results when he wants to but then slips back into his tried and untested ways once again.

72 points wasn't delivering?

 

[bluewally]

72 points wasn't delivering?

I think he means going forward. 72 was great I agree but we've dropped off a little since then