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Roberto Martinez discussion

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I think it's a bit too early to say we have turned the corner defensively. It's barely a month since we shipped 8 goals in 3 games.

I agree on that one, bit too early to say we have although at least there is an improvement. I think bringing in Mori for Stones was a good move as he's better in the air and dropping Howard was needed. I don't think us conceding goals has been just down to who plays though, I think our tactics have left us exposed sometimes.

One thing that has worried me is that Martinez has taken too long to react to issues with the team this season.
 
I have for some time wanted RM out and do believe the quicker he goes the quicker we can move on. However, its all relative and the longer he stays the more chance he does have of winning something. Who knows, we can hopefully get past Chelsea, get a favourable semi draw and o on to win it. If that happens my opinion would probably change. However as it stands today, would let him go.
 
To be fair yes you do. I think it's dangerous to think just because we have conceded a few less goals recently that it's getting better. Our marking at set pieces is still shocking at times for example.
Agree the summer would be the time to change it but my concern is that Martinez doesn't see it as a concern. He has gone on record saying he is not concerned about conceding which I find baffling. Surely anyone would strive to be the best they can be and making some simple changes could help a great deal. Not sure if it's because he's a mate or if he really thinks that it will all come good in the end. It's a hell of a gamble hoping it's going to come good in the end with the way the game changes so quickly nowadays.

In regards to this mate I basically think RM was trying to say 'just keeping clean sheets doesn't guarantee wins' - or that's what he should have said anyway, IMO.

It's obviously a blatant lie anyway as since the Stoke game we've generally looked to defend deeper, though granted we can still be a bit cavalier at times (which is what makes us so good going forward).

He's right in that we shouldn't go into a game soley thinking about keeping a clean sheer.
I think it's a bit too early to say we have turned the corner defensively. It's barely a month since we shipped 8 goals in 3 games.

If you're referring to Chelsea-Swansea-City mate then I thought we'd agreed to leave the cups out of it?

City away was a game where they (the £500mil home side) needed to get 3 to go through. They got a goal from a deflection (fine it happens - sometimes for sometimes against) and then we held firm and looked fine for 50 minutes.

Yes they were bombarding us, but no more than we were doing to WBA last time out in the league.

The game changed on a ref decision and then we collapsed. A one-off game on a one-off occasion.

Chelsea we were again cost by a mad two minutes, but did superbly to recover and then get the late goal, which had all things been correct would have been the winner.

Now I'm trying to avoid if's and buts but I don't think it's fair to blame RM for two massive calls totally out of his control which changed the outcome of both games.

We may not have fully turned a corner, no, but how anybody can't see the improvements is beyond me? And again, a lot of the goals we concede are still down to player errors rather than tactics (McCarthy and Rom not tracking Rondon, Jagielka and Howard messing up for Costa's goal etc.) so once more why does the buck stop with Martinez and not the players?

Yes we still concede too much space at times, but we generally look so much more solid now than we did a month or two back.
 

Again, in your opinion.

In my opinion, while a cup run isn't a success unless you ultimately win the thing, they are still a key factor in any season, and should be treated as such.

Quite right on the bit in bold... no-one gets a trophy for getting beat in a semi, or for being a runner up. So until we win one, we can all stop using it as a stick for whichever argument fits. Getting to the semi beating league 2 opponents or premier opponents it doesn't matter unless you win it.

Win a trophy he will be a success, however he hasn't yet, and IMO (as me and you have gone over a few times) he has been poor this season and last
 
I agree on that one, bit too early to say we have although at least there is an improvement. I think bringing in Mori for Stones was a good move as he's better in the air and dropping Howard was needed. I don't think us conceding goals has been just down to who plays though, I think our tactics have left us exposed sometimes.

One thing that has worried me is that Martinez has taken too long to react to issues with the team this season.

I would agree with this.

The only caviette I have for that is, in terms of the defence, we've rarely had all of our 'first choice' players fit this season - and since the return of players like Jags and McCarthy we've looked much more assured.
 

Quite right on the bit in bold... no-one gets a trophy for getting beat in a semi, or for being a runner up. So until we win one, we can all stop using it as a stick for whichever argument fits. Getting to the semi beating league 2 opponents or premier opponents it doesn't matter unless you win it.

Win a trophy he will be a success, however he hasn't yet, and IMO (as me and you have gone over a few times) he has been poor this season and last

fair point well made.

IMO, again as I've stated many times, we're in a position with a third of the season left when it could still go either way and so he can't be judged on this season until then.

Last season was poor but his first season was class and if we take one into account then it's only fair we take the other into account as well - especially as we have shown real signs of being as good if not better at times this season than we were in our first.
 
Last season was poor but his first season was class and if we take one into account then it's only fair we take the other into account as well - especially as we have shown real signs of being as good if not better at times this season than we were in our first.

I'll quite happily take the first into account as it shows the trajectory he has put us on.

I don't agree that we are anywhere near as good as we were in his first season.
 

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