Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

just turning those draws into wins isnt it? so close..

Draws have killed us in the PL mate.

Just fractions off a very good campaign in the league.

 

[bluewally]

just turning those draws into wins isnt it? so close..

Yup. We've been on the edge of something phenomenal for nearly 2 years now

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

People say things like this without seemingly any regard for the season it totality.

Results:

Played 36

Won 17
Drawn 11
Lost 8

We've won just under half our matches and lost, roughly, a fifth.

While you have included the cup matches - which is right because its a competitive competition, its only fair to separate this out into the league results too. Winning the cup games and semi finals are great - but they don't matter unless we win the cup to go with it.

League Results.

Won 9

Drawn 11

Lost 7

Winning 8 cup games and losing one is good form, but we have nothing to show for it.

 

[bluewally]

No, it isn't.

It is, though, our season record...something conveniently forgotten by some.

Maybe we should just ignore all Everton results in the future if they're not in the sooper dooper "Barcalys Premier League"?

Correct. How can we exclude the footballing powerhouses of Dagenham and Redbridge, Carlisle, Reading, Boro and Barnsley.

 

[MikeH72]

I'd never describe what those midgets play as 'touched by the Gods'.

So even though they win everything in sight and batter everyone and have the greatest player ever, they're not touched by the gods but 11th place Everton are?

 

[Titus Bramble]

There has been progress from last season in some things, of course we still have some issues that need sorting.

League form this season: won 9, drawn 11, lost 7
At the same point last season: won 6, drawn 10, lost 11.

4 fewer losses and 3 more wins do suggest we're doing better and in my opinion we are close to getting it right. If (yes, we're back onto ifs and buts) we hadn't made some daft defensive errors as individuals and as a team, the win column would look even healthier. Drawing too many games we should have won have cost us this season, last season we were losing too often.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

No, it isn't.

It is, though, our season record...something conveniently forgotten by some.

Maybe we should just ignore all Everton results in the future f they're not in the sooper dooper "Barcalys Premier League"?

Regardless, there's still too many draws that should've been comfortable wins. Add in a few piss-poor defeats...

The money's in the PL. The cups barely pay more than 2 PL places (If that?). If we're to improve our revenue then we must, MUST kill teams off in the league. No excuses for not doing so. It's not as if it's too big an ask, is it?

 

[orly]

While you have included the cup matches - which is right because its a competitive competition, its only fair to separate this out into the league results too. Winning the cup games and semi finals are great - but they don't matter unless we win the cup to go with it.

League Results.

Won 9

Drawn 11

Lost 7

Winning 8 cup games and losing one is good form, but we have nothing to show for it.

If anything, it's a real shame we weren't put into the FA Cup Qualifying rounds, then the season would have looked really ace

 

[BlueToff]

While you have included the cup matches - which is right because its a competitive competition, its only fair to separate this out into the league results too. Winning the cup games and semi finals are great - but they don't matter unless we win the cup to go with it.

League Results.

Won 9

Drawn 11

Lost 7

Winning 8 cup games and losing one is good form, but we have nothing to show for it.

As Neil and Dave have pointed out though, it's those draws that have been the biggest issue in that in most of them (not all, obviously) we have either thrown away a lead or missed loads of chances to put the game out of sight. That to me suggests it's as much a fault of the players as it is the manager, as the system we play has seen us create plenty of chances. Our goalscoring is great on the whole but it would have been the best in the country had we taken just half of the chances we create in those games.

Palace at home, Norwich away, Swansea away immediately spring to mind. Even City away in the league we created plenty in the first half but Hart played well. Chelsea, as much touted and it cannot be ignored, we did all in our power to win like after that mad two minutes had cost us.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

As Neil and Dave have pointed out though, it's those draws that have been the biggest issue in that in most of them (not all, obviously) we have either thrown away a lead or missed loads of chances to put the game out of sight. That to me suggests it's as much a fault of the players as it is the manager, as the system we play has seen us create plenty of chances. Our goalscoring is great on the whole but it would have been the best in the country had we taken just half of the chances we create in those games.

Palace at home, Norwich away, Swansea away immediately spring to mind. Even City away in the league we created plenty in the first half but Hart played well. Chelsea, as much touted and it cannot be ignored, we did all in our power to win like after that mad two minutes had cost us.

I think its always been a bit of a curse us drawing games though, we always have had a high draw count (from the top of my head happy to be proved wrong).

Like i said am not bring this back to the argument of whether martinez should be in or out - this was just stating that facts that while its all well and good showing all competitions results because they are competitive, we must balance that with the fact the league is our bread and butter (unless we win a cup), and most of our opposition hasn't been premier league quality. You beat the team thats in front of you though.

I don't want to be sitting there at the end of the season saying, oh if only we didn't do this or we didn't draw that game - the record at the end of the season is the record and ifs and buts don't change that.

My personal point with Martinez when it comes to some of them is his un dying belief that the best form of defence is attack in some of the games we draw which we should have won. Next time we go 3-2 up in the last 10 mins of a match will be a sign to me of progression, or stubbornness.

 

[BlueToff]

I think its always been a bit of a curse us drawing games though, we always have had a high draw count (from the top of my head happy to be proved wrong).

Like i said am not bring this back to the argument of whether martinez should be in or out - this was just stating that facts that while its all well and good showing all competitions results because they are competitive, we must balance that with the fact the league is our bread and butter (unless we win a cup), and most of our opposition hasn't been premier league quality. You beat the team thats in front of you though.

I don't want to be sitting there at the end of the season saying, oh if only we didn't do this or we didn't draw that game - the record at the end of the season is the record and ifs and buts don't change that.

My personal point with Martinez when it comes to some of them is his un dying belief that the best form of defence is attack in some of the games we draw which we should have won. Next time we go 3-2 up in the last 10 mins of a match will be a sign to me of progression, or stubbornness.

Fair points well made mate!

On your last point, this is my bug bear with the posters/fans who believe he hasn't changed - or look to change.

Perfect example was Bournemouth the other day. Managed the game well after taking the 2 goal lead.

Before that, our last 3-3 (Chelsea), we actually gave everything we could in defending that lead we had taken so late on. I cite again but our player and manager can't be responsible for that.

What we undoubtedly need to improve is our defending from crosses into the box. For some reason we just can't do it. Again, RM has to take blame for this but so do the players - especially the more experienced ones. Jags, as good as he is for us, is dreadful at it and constantly gets caught under the ball.

Since Joel came in, we've looked more confident because he comes out for the ball. However, it's still not sorted and is our obvious weakness.

It's also a factor, however, that since Oviedo came in, we actually do prevent those crosses a lot more than we did before from that left flank (Villa's goal the other day came when he wasn't on the pitch). Cleverley is also a big factor in that as he tracks back well, and, on the other side, Lennon doing the same.

 

[JonS]

Reading this article http://a.msn.com/r/2/BBqhIuh?ocid=Sport about Wenger and Arsenal, I was struck by how many of the points could apply to Martinez' Everton.

If they could be sorted out we could have a team with success rivalling that of the mid-80's IMO.

What do you all think?

 

[DrEFC]

But we are on course to miss every one of those targets making the season a failure. How can you then be happy?

We're still in the FA cup. There's still plenty of league games left. I'm not gonna be pessimistic for the sake of it.

 

[squonk]

Fair points well made mate!

On your last point, this is my bug bear with the posters/fans who believe he hasn't changed - or look to change.

Perfect example was Bournemouth the other day. Managed the game well after taking the 2 goal lead.

Before that, our last 3-3 (Chelsea), we actually gave everything we could in defending that lead we had taken so late on. I cite again but our player and manager can't be responsible for that.

What we undoubtedly need to improve is our defending from crosses into the box. For some reason we just can't do it. Again, RM has to take blame for this but so do the players - especially the more experienced ones. Jags, as good as he is for us, is dreadful at it and constantly gets caught under the ball.

Since Joel came in, we've looked more confident because he comes out for the ball. However, it's still not sorted and is our obvious weakness.

It's also a factor, however, that since Oviedo came in, we actually do prevent those crosses a lot more than we did before from that left flank (Villa's goal the other day came when he wasn't on the pitch). Cleverley is also a big factor in that as he tracks back well, and, on the other side, Lennon doing the same.

the improvement over the last month or so has been because he has done exactly the things that his critics were urging him to do, like drop certain players and tighten up defensively.

more like football touched by necessity than touched by the gods

 

[deipnosophist]

As Neil and Dave have pointed out though, it's those draws that have been the biggest issue in that in most of them (not all, obviously) we have either thrown away a lead or missed loads of chances to put the game out of sight. That to me suggests it's as much a fault of the players as it is the manager, as the system we play has seen us create plenty of chances. Our goalscoring is great on the whole but it would have been the best in the country had we taken just half of the chances we create in those games.

Palace at home, Norwich away, Swansea away immediately spring to mind. Even City away in the league we created plenty in the first half but Hart played well. Chelsea, as much touted and it cannot be ignored, we did all in our power to win like after that mad two minutes had cost us.

Broken clocks read correct time twice a day...