Roberto Martinez discussion

[Ihaters]

As Neil and Dave have pointed out though, it's those draws that have been the biggest issue in that in most of them (not all, obviously) we have either thrown away a lead or missed loads of chances to put the game out of sight. That to me suggests it's as much a fault of the players as it is the manager, as the system we play has seen us create plenty of chances. Our goalscoring is great on the whole but it would have been the best in the country had we taken just half of the chances we create in those games.

Palace at home, Norwich away, Swansea away immediately spring to mind. Even City away in the league we created plenty in the first half but Hart played well. Chelsea, as much touted and it cannot be ignored, we did all in our power to win like after that mad two minutes had cost us.

That's fine, but ignores the opposite, like all the times we have gifted the opposition sitters and they failed to take advantage. Been a lot of games in all three seasons we should of lost or drawn, but instead drew or won.

 

[bluewally]

We're still in the FA cup. There's still plenty of league games left. I'm not gonna be pessimistic for the sake of it.

It's hardly for the sake of it. It's based on pathetic form.

 

[bluewally]

the improvement over the last month or so has been because he has done exactly the things that his critics were urging him to do, like drop certain players and tighten up defensively.

more like football touched by necessity than touched by the gods

Necessity and a nice run of fixtures

 

[Prevenger17]

So even though they win everything in sight and batter everyone and have the greatest player ever, they're not touched by the gods but 11th place Everton are?

Barcelona are playing football touched by performance enhancing drugs.

 

[sageyefc]

just turning those draws into wins isnt it? so close..

And most of it was because of the 2hat in goal. No doubt we'd be top 4 if he was dropped earlier

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's hardly for the sake of it. It's based on pathetic form.

It's poor & inconsistent, granted. Villa's form's what I'd call pathetic

 

[BlueToff]

That's fine, but ignores the opposite, like all the times we have gifted the opposition sitters and they failed to take advantage. Been a lot of games in all three seasons we should of lost or drawn, but instead drew or won.

and that's the same with every team?

 

[bluewally]

It's poor & inconsistent, granted. Villa's form's what I'd call pathetic

Villas form is non existent. Mate's a villa fan and he's gone past distraught to hoping that they might actually get a new owner in the championship and clear out the deadwood.

Back to Everton, Stoke are the highest placed team we've beaten recently. The rest are in a lower division or the bottom three yet it's improvement, that's pretty pathetic.

 

[Ihaters]

and that's the same with every team?

Correct, so imo there is no point in going with luck based hypothetic arguments to back up performance and results, when the reality is plenty of our results this season could of gone either way and we are about where we should be.

 

[BlueToff]

Correct, so imo there is no point in going with luck based hypothetic arguments to back up performance and results, when the reality is plenty of our results this season could of gone either way and we are about where we should be.

I wasn't talking about luck though.

I was saying that there's plenty of times we create much more than the oppo yet don't win. Sometime's that's luck but a lot of the time on our part it's been poor finishing/players not gambling on some of Del's worldie crosses etc.

That has nothing to do with tactics that's the players not taking the chances they create.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Villas form is non existent. Mate's a villa fan and he's gone past distraught to hoping that they might actually get a new owner in the championship and clear out the deadwood.

Back to Everton, Stoke are the highest placed team we've beaten recently. The rest are in a lower division or the bottom three yet it's improvement, that's pretty pathetic.

I'm not saying we've improved - far from it. We've been utter garbage and managed to win some games this season, we've been decent in others and lost; or we've thrown away 2 goal leads in others.

I still see signs that we're easily capable of beating ourselves. I'm far from convinced at the moment...

 

[toffeeblue9]

It's hardly for the sake of it. It's based on pathetic form.

Over the last 6 games, we have the 6th best record in the league, even allowing for the annoying defeats at home to Swansea and West Brom.

We had pathetic form from the Bournemouth game and basically the whole of December, other than that we've only really had a couple of bad results the whole season. Before that Bournemouth game we were in 7th place and 6 points off the teams in 3rd and 4th place, 4 points off Spurs in 5th place and a point behind West Ham in 6th.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like December doesn't count or anything, but I think people lose a little bit of perspective at times

We are where we are and although we've been unlucky a few times, I'm not going to say the table is lying or anything like that. "Pathetic form" goes a bit far though for me.

 

[davek]

While you have included the cup matches - which is right because its a competitive competition, its only fair to separate this out into the league results too. Winning the cup games and semi finals are great - but they don't matter unless we win the cup to go with it.
League Results.
Won 9
Drawn 11
Lost 7
Winning 8 cup games and losing one is good form, but we have nothing to show for it.

We do have something to shows for it though: it shows we can take on teams in a one off format and do well, home and away. In seasons when we've gone out of the cups early we always bemoan that fact, don't we? Well the opposite also stands: we've progressed to the latter stages of both and the team deserve recognition for that.

Correct. How can we exclude the footballing powerhouses of Dagenham and Redbridge, Carlisle, Reading, Boro and Barnsley.

What should Martinez have done, demanded all the top teams to beat?

I think you'll find that the route of all successful cup teams are littered with mostly beating minnows...but you still have to beat them. It takes focus, commitment and character to get the job done.

So even though they win everything in sight and batter everyone and have the greatest player ever, they're not touched by the gods but 11th place Everton are?

What can I tell you? Their style of football bores me to tears...and a lot of other people too. Our style is much more dynamic. I like the way we play. Sue me.

the improvement over the last month or so has been because he has done exactly the things that his critics were urging him to do, like drop certain players and tighten up defensively.

more like football touched by necessity than touched by the gods

I hear this a lot: we win games and it's because the fans tell him what to do. But they never have input on the defeats. Strange that.

Success has many fathers, defeat is an orphan.

 

[Ihaters]

I wasn't talking about luck though.

I was saying that there's plenty of times we create much more than the oppo yet don't win. Sometime's that's luck but a lot of the time on our part it's been poor finishing/players not gambling on some of Del's worldie crosses etc.

That has nothing to do with tactics that's the players not taking the chances they create.

My bad, mis-read your post.
Yeah we defo need to bury more of the sitters, though Lukaku is giving it a good go, we also need to stop giving the opposition sitters, but we all know that

 

[BlueToff]

We do have something to shows for it though: it shows we can take on teams in a one off format and do well, home and away. In seasons when we've gone out of the cups early we always bemoan that fact, don't we? Well the opposite also stands: we've progressed to the latter stages of both and the team deserve recognition for that.



What should Martinez have done, demanded all the top teams to beat?

I think you'll find that the route of all successful cup teams are littered with mostly beating minnows...but you still have to beat them. It takes focus, commitment and character to get the job done.


What can I tell you? Their style of football bores me to tears...and a lot of other people too. Our style is much more dynamic. I like the way we play. Sue me.




I hear this a lot: we win games and it's because the fans tell him what to do. But they never have input on the defeats. Strange that.

Success has many fathers, defeat is an orphan.

MickNick just put a clip of the 1st Lukaku goal vs Stoke at Goodison in the McCarthy thread.

Some of the attacking football we've played this season has been outstanding. Best stuff I have ever seen us play - including RM's first season.

We've done that consistently - what we haven't done is finish off enough of the chances we have created (mainly in home games but sometimes away as well) to take any hint of stress away from our fragile defence - which has looked less fragile since the turn of the year - though I agree this is when we've got the test of the teams around us playing us.