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Roberto Martinez discussion

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TheHumbleEgg said:
Y'know one of the biggies for me (and I've mentioned this before) I have some mates, WIGAN fans, who basically laughed when he came and went 'Right, this is how it's gonna go...' And it pains to say they were pretty well bang on the button. And because of that, and an age ago, I scoured WIGAN forums, pressers, interviews with him, basically done m'research....and it's ALL the same shiz. All of it. There's SO much written here that - (obv take away the standard of player) - that is literally verbatim to what was written then by their fans...

I wish, genuinely, he'd learn 'cos there's no doubt he's a savvy guy. But, maaaaaaaaaan.....
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got links? id be interested in reading them :)
 

neil999 said:
im an end of season decider

if you wanted to know, you pro dont but there we go
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Huh ? Don't get that second part mate lol

For the first part, it is a strange one:
A) We sack him and give the new guy a few end of season games to look at what he has, start a fresh over the summer.
B) Keep him until the summer and then see were we finish. Meaning we spend the first part of the summer to recruit a new guy.
C) Keep him until next season to see if he can balance it out. If not sack him early on and start again that way.

Personally I think every time he looks like he has made progress we then get slammed back down to earth with an almighty thud. Against WHU the manager and the players were brilliant up until the 60 odd minutes mark.
 
No way to manage a side; going from beating an in-form side one week only to lose to abject dross the next.

And it's happened time & again. Just like allowing two goal leads to be negated within minutes.

We're alright at thrashing 3 of the 4 bottom clubs at home, but not even averaging 1.5 points at home is unforgiveable. In fact, it's a disgrace.

A DISGRACE :rant:

Balls to those that want to point to the away form. If teams are coming to Goodison with a mere sniff of free points on the breeze then there's something badly wrong. That goes from Loysturr to Villa.

NO!

And blaming the fans for it?! GTF Martinez. Can't stand the heat? Don't make [Poor language removed] tactical changes. Stop picking osman ahead of anyone. Get your defence drilled. Stop spouting utter tripe using the words 'phenomenal' and 'fantastic' to describe things that are the antithesis of it.

Better still, GO - And leave it to someone who'll do those things you continually don't, and won't do the things you perpetually do.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
To achieve success in this league you need to be defensively solid.

All the best sides in the division who've achieved anything of real note have done so from a solid back line and keeper.

The only exception to that in recent years was across the park, when ultimately their defensive frailty cost them the Holy Grail, and they had arguably the best striker (or certainly one of the very best) in the World at the time in the starting XI.

The way we are playing will never deliver consistent results, a couple of cup games yeah, but over a 38 game season the inherent defensive frailty, brought about by the managers total lack of focus on it - will never see us deliver any form of sustained challenge.

As even the very best have off days, and when they're not firing, they find a way of getting a result. Martinez has proved that he's not a manager who is either willing or able to grind out a result with a plan B. His wretched philosophy is dictating the results that we're seeing from this Everton side, and it's got to the point were it's beyond 'growing pains' or part of the 'development' it's merely a symptom of his flawed outlook.
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Don't agree with that, Ferguson gave up on defending for his last few title wins. Mourinho's teams always built from the back, but Fergie just had a "we'll score more than you" philosophy.
 
Paul Bernard said:
Huh ? Don't get that second part mate lol

For the first part, it is a strange one:
A) We sack him and give the new guy a few end of season games to look at what he has, start a fresh over the summer.
B) Keep him until the summer and then see were we finish. Meaning we spend the first part of the summer to recruit a new guy.
C) Keep him until next season to see if he can balance it out. If not sack him early on and start again that way.

Personally I think every time he looks like he has made progress we then get slammed back down to earth with an almighty thud. Against WHU the manager and the players were brilliant up until the 60 odd minutes mark.
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The way I see it the board might give him remainder of the season to save his job

If we see NO evidence of the problems being addressed then the boot should come regardless if we reach the end of the season or not. As I have said on a different post the status quo cannot continue.

Personally I think just get rid and start again however who is available at the minute to come in ?? that's why I think he will last to the end of the season at least
 

BlueToff said:
Doesn't change the fact that he knew how to play the players he signed?

Nobody should take that first season away from him. Just as nobody should ignore the form of last season and most of this.

But yeh, I agree, we need more of a balance.

I'm still holding out hope that can be achieved with him here but I'm leaning towards that answer being no. I still want to give him until the end of the season to change our minds, like.
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Three seasons. That is a fair enough amount of time to look at the results and performances and see what Martinez is about here.


We're two and a half in and at the moment we're looking more like the second season than the first.

If he gets sacked it will be at the end of the season, and, unless things have changed for the better, he will have deserved it.

I try not to jump on his back after a loss or to praise him too much after a win and instead look at Everton's performance on a wider scope. He has done very well with most of his transfers, he has got us playing some really nice footy on occasion. However, It has been over 18 months of poor home results and some abysmal defensive performances.


That West Ham match I will consider an outlier as we were down a man for a long period of that match and the numbers will tell you that we are odds on to lose that match. I'm a little disappointed with how and at what time in the match that capitulation happened so rapidly. The thing that gets to me is that those rapid capitulations after conceding are happening on days when we have the full 11 still on the pitch and it is happening against different levels of opposition and with us holding varying leading margins at times when we should be able to just box off the match and take the 3 points with us.

What I've seen in 18 months is that Martinez is slow to learn from mistakes or to react to changing situations in the match. You see this with some of the substitution decisions he makes, or the fact that he stuck with Tim Howard until he got himself injured and was forced to give Joel a run in the team. Martinez is very similar to Moyes in that they both have one particular strategy the want their players to execute to the letter each and every game. He is a strategist and not a tactician.

At this point, I'm beginning to see him more and more unfavourably. He has until the end of the season to turn it around, get us as high up the table as possible and as befits our great club. Try and bring home the FA cup. If he can't get us up to 7th by the end of the season then I would support us cutting our losses, because let's face it, there has been a clear and definitive downward trend at Everton that has been sustained nearly two years at this point.

I don't think he has terrible as some people on here, but I do think he has yet to fix problems that have been apparent for nearly two years and that is a big problem. It is one thing to have recognized weaknesses, it is another to recognize them and fail to do anything to improve upon them.

So for me it is 7th place at a minimum or he has failed to improve us for two years on the run and that just shouldn't be sustainable for an Everton manager.
 
If we give up another 2 goal lead this season, we need to see him out the door. I've wanted to believe he can change the defensive organization, but he seems intent on proving me wrong. To have a team of such talent with such a fragile mentality and inexcusably poor fitness levels is unacceptable. Does my head in how we collapse around the 75th of every match. Read this morning that since he's been in charge we have dropped 45 points from winning positions, 12 of those since November. That is atrocious.
 
Mickey said:
I'd go easy on him mate he's nursing more lumps than McGregor this afternoon. His boy has let him down again and is most likely planning the exit strategy when it all goes tits up. But he'll come out swinging if we beat Chelsea make no mistake, the kids loyal.
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I weren't having a pop at Da-vek mate, I admire his loyalty to the manager, its sort of a old school trait, I liked it when we backed moyes through thick and thin. Im just interested in wondering when the turning point is for dave. Looking back over the last 18 months have been one that me and dave have battled against for the whole time. I agree he is young and talented (Martinez I mean !) but at the same time im just tired, like literally tired of the same routine in the last 18 months, its hard to watch, the first time is always tough but then when he makes the same mistakes over and over it becomes tedious.
 
http://sabotagetimes.com/football/leading-wigan-blogger-explains-why-martinez-is-the-man-for-everton

Think of the nicest man you know. It might be a favourite uncle, a rock of a man who cannot do enough for anyone or a kindly neighbour or a work colleague who you'd love to dislike but try as you might, you just can't.

Now try and think of the nicest man in the world but make it someone in the public eye. Gets a bit harder now doesn't it? Celebrities and pop stars are by their very nature flawed as life in the public eye inevitably comes with fame and pressure. What about that Gary Lineker, he's squeaky clean isn't he? Oh. OK then what about Michael Owen? Want a bet on it? That Martin Jol always seems a jolly soul doesn't he?

Let's cut to the chase though. I've met the nicest man in the world. The trouble is, he's just about to go and break my heart and leave me for someone who doesn't even seem to want him. Oh Roberto I hope you know what you're doing!

This is a man who oozes class. A man who has an unshakably positive outlook and a persuasive, confident nature. A man who when firmly lodged in the jaws of defeat will simply smile and tell you it will be alright. And you will believe him. Or think he's mad. But he'll be right. He's a gentleman of the highest order and a true, passionate football man who took our town to his hearts as a young man and understands everything about Wigan Athletic.



Of course, it's a gamble but then who isn't? My main reservations around him taking the Everton job are because I don't want to see him die on his feet. If some Everton fans demand success instantly when it may realistically take years no matter who comes in given the Manchester clubs' current dominance he's set up to be a fall guy if he never gets the time in the first place.

If he gets the job, he will get Everton passing to perpetuity, and I am led to believe this is a desirable quality. He'd duck badly some times, but he'd also pull off spectacular results when it all clicks. Forget putting it in the mixer, even in the 92nd minute, expect endless passing triangles around the box and short corners but more goals scored from outside the box than any other team.

But as I say I'm not in the business of trying to sell him to Toffees fans.

The trouble is the expectation would be on him every week if he moved to Everton. I want to protect him from this even though he is doing the dirty on us. I'm confident he'd do well and I'm sure he would be. He's too positive and diligent to fail, but what if he isn't even given a chance? This is what annoys me, why I don't want him to go or if he goes and fails then Everton fans clearly don't deserve him anyway. I'm sure he'll be alright though and as frustrating it is to see, that any time a player or manager does well at a club like Wigan he gets swept up in this horrible, money rotten capitalist football world we imbibe ourselves in, the big fish swallowing up the small fish, I can't help but wish him well if he goes. I know he will win people over wherever he goes: some see it straightaway, others take a hell of a lot of convincing but he always gets there.

I still #prayforroberto to stay as many Twitter folk would have it but it's looking less tenable by the hour. It will hurt seeing him leave and us Wigan Athletic fans hoped he would give it at least another year but he is an ambitious man and I am sure he will be fine wherever his career takes him. Hopefully he has already created a legacy that will see Wigan Athletic and Swansea City fine for many years to come. I can but hope. Because I'm not as positive as Roberto. No-one is.
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Interesting reading. Not damning but quite close to the truth in large aspects
 

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