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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Hong Kong Phooey said:
That stat above about points dropped from winning positions is horrendous. Is it just "game management", or it it fitness?

Maybe both? Michael Ball has written in his latest column that he's concerned about our fitness levels as everyone seems to run out of gas with 20 minutes to go.

That could well be a factor in why we capitulate so often late in games.

The players themselves have gone on record and said pre season was more about ball work rather than fitness.

That's just incompetence isn't it? The more time goes on the more I want him gone.

Get a new man in and let the new owner give HIM the funds in the summer to get his own players in.
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Last season fitness was an issue but this season not so much.

We actually often look just as strong (fitness wise) in the last 10 minutes. I do think the Mirallas red played a huge part in us looking knackered towards the end of the game on Saturday (not that it's an excuse for the defeat).
 

Whilst I don't want him flat out gone, if I was to hear he'd been sacked I'd probably just greet it with a shrug of the shoulders and an "Oh well" now. He needs to be doing far far better and it's becoming increasingly difficult to defend him after every false dawn and every turned corner leads down a dead end. I want him to do better as I think that as a long term manager there's a lot of good he can bring he club from academy up.

But at the end of the day it's pointless if we're not getting the results. There's only so much bad luck a team can have. There's only so many capitulations you can take. There's only so many stories of player discontent that's acceptable. We'd almost have to go through the rest of the season undefeated to get most fans back inside now. And I think critically, there's a section of fans now with whom he might never be able to repair the damage.

I don't want him sacked, but I do want him to be doing far far better. And I'll make a further decision at the end of the season.
 
Eric Djemba-Djemba said:
I'm not blind to anything. Martinez has got good points, his bad points just far outweigh the good points.
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In your opinion yes.

I think there's a very fine line between them.

For me - I agree with you - RM is currently on the wrong side of that line - and that's due to the defeat vs W.Ham.

Had he not done that substitution and we had won the game, i'd still be on side and not on the fence as I am now - and I think he's brought that on himself in regards to a large section who supported him firmly now realising that he won't (or can't) change for good.

I still think his good points get overlooked far too easily by people who have wanted him out for ages mind, just like those thats till firmly want him in tend to sometimes ignore the bad points.
 
Duncan Disordely said:
Whilst I don't want him flat out gone, if I was to hear he'd been sacked I'd probably just greet it with a shrug of the shoulders and an "Oh well" now. He needs to be doing far far better and it's becoming increasingly difficult to defend him after every false dawn and every turned corner leads down a dead end. I want him to do better as I think that as a long term manager there's a lot of good he can bring he club from academy up.

But at the end of the day it's pointless if we're not getting the results. There's only so much bad luck a team can have. There's only so many capitulations you can take. There's only so many stories of player discontent that's acceptable. We'd almost have to go through the rest of the season undefeated to get most fans back inside now. And I think critically, there's a section of fans now with whom he might never be able to repair the damage.

I don't want him sacked, but I do want him to be doing far far better. And I'll make a further decision at the end of the season.
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Spot on
 
BlueToff said:
In your opinion yes.

I think there's a very fine line between them.

For me - I agree with you - RM is currently on the wrong side of that line - and that's due to the defeat vs W.Ham.

Had he not done that substitution and we had won the game, i'd still be on side and not on the fence as I am now - and I think he's brought that on himself in regards to a large section who supported him firmly now realising that he won't (or can't) change for good.

I still think his good points get overlooked far too easily by people who have wanted him out for ages mind, just like those thats till firmly want him in tend to sometimes ignore the bad points.
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Martinez is not on the wrong side of the line because of 1 game mate.
Fans are fed up with deja-vu
 

daz4matty said:
Martinez is not on the wrong side of the line because of 1 game mate.
Fans are fed up with deja-vu
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No, some fans are.

A lot of people were on the fence or behind him and have now switched because of that game.

And that's because it was a game that we had control of and for 75 minutes he had shown us all how good he could be.

He threw that away and that's why I'm now of a similar opinion to @Duncan Disordely
 
BlueToff said:
Up until their first goal yes.

Which is a sad incitement of both players and the manager that we all knew what would happen...
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You knew once the first goal went in they would score again.

It was the same when we blew the two goal lead against Arsenal last season.

The minute they scored the first the crowd sensed a second was inevitable.

And now I think about it, didn't Arsenal miss a great chance to score a third in injury time?
 
Lanolin said:
Or it could point to him saying something positive about his new employers and the fans of his new club. And when I say could, I mean does.

I'm not defending Moyes, he did a good job but his time had more than run out as far as I was concerned. The constant use of two out of context quotes to run him down is beyond tiresome though.
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I see it as him being disrespectful to his old club mate, the club that stood by him, and gave him his big chance.

He didn't need to use us to say something positive about his new club.
 
Win all of our home games from now until the end of the season.

Top 8 or FA Cup.

If he does that, then IMO he gets time at the start of the next season. But he has to be set a marker (say 'so many points by 10 games') and if not he goes, and it's early enough in the season for the replacement to come in.

If he fails to achieve top 8/FA Cup, then he should be gone in May, IMO.

@Kiwi
 
Khalekan said:
You knew once the first goal went in they would score again.

It was the same when we blew the two goal lead against Arsenal last season.

The minute they scored the first the crowd sensed a second was inevitable.

And now I think about it, didn't Arsenal miss a great chance to score a third in injury time?
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I was at that game last year mate but no I don't think they did. Giroud got injured though late on?
 

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