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Roberto Martinez discussion

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To be honest, I'd be interested to see someone write a completely well balanced argument and actually consider the good things Roberto has done for us, with his negative aspects. An article published by GOT or Everton Arent We maybe, because this is all the most tunnel visioned, one sided argument I've ever read.
 
United had been decimated by Moyes.

The derby in his first season we conceded a last minute equaliser and drew.

Chelsea in his first season fair enough.

Chelsea this season were in an absolute state when we played them but ok.

City in the league cup doesn't matter because we lost the 2nd leg and went out.

Martinez's record in big games and against the best is very, very poor.

So what?

We beat them on all occasions and it's not like they're crap. They had good players.

I'd say it's exactly equal to Moyes' record in a similar time frame...
 
Yeah but to be fair Moyes won a load of these type of games (what I would consider bigger games) yet got called a bottler.

Liverpool fa cup double header
United fa cup semi final
United home game 04/05
City games home and away loads of times.

Yet he ultimately ended up being called a bottler, something Roberto apparently isn't.

But look at the games you've listed.

Both United games meaningless league games v Moyes' United who finished 7th.

Goodidon Derby we threw away allowing Liverpool to score with most of their efforts on target and three set pieces (classic bottling)

Chelsea games were home games early season and of little significance. Moyes regularly picked up these sort of scalps.

The City game was first leg of a tie we ultimately lost, just like Kiev.


I can see your point mate, I personally don't think either manager are bottlers, but both have an annoying habit of only winning when it doesn't matter.

No I don't think RM's a bottler. I think he is too naive in how he attempts to win those games though. We either go too open or too defensive with very little middle ground.

How were they meaningless as well - those games at United? Or when we put in arguably the performance of the season at the Emirates?

You can't say the wins were insignificant if your argument revolves around playing the big teams?
 
No I don't think RM's a bottler. I think he is too naive in how he attempts to win those games though. We either go too open or too defensive with very little middle ground.

How were they meaningless as well - those games at United? Or when we put in arguably the performance of the season at the Emirates?

You can't say the wins were insignificant if your argument revolves around playing the big teams?

We definitely don't bottle games under Martinez like we did at Moyes. We just throw them away instead.
 

So what?

We beat them on all occasions and it's not like they're crap. They had good players.

I'd say it's exactly equal to Moyes' record in a similar time frame...
We didn't beat them all. You put forward the 3-3 with Liverpool as if it was a great result.

Moyes got called a bottler, if Martinez has got an equal record doesn't that make him a bottler? That Palace game at home in his first season was one of the biggest bottle jobs going.
 
To be honest, I'd be interested to see someone write a completely well balanced argument and actually consider the good things Roberto has done for us, with his negative aspects. An article published by GOT or Everton Arent We maybe, because this is all the most tunnel visioned, one sided argument I've ever read.

He's done good things and a lot of them and it's why I've defended him so much.

Saturday however kind of tilted me more towards the fence because of the manner of the defeat.

He still has until the end of the season for me but if he doesn't show improvement then for me he has to go in May.

Saying that, it's all academic as the only person's opinion that counts is Moshiri and the other majority shareholders...
 
WHAT I’M HEARING: PRESSURE ON MARTINEZ AT EVERTON

It’s something I’ve been hearing whispers about for a while now and the groans of discontent are now growing among fans about Roberto Martinez at Everton. Big time.

A source recently told ProSoccerTalk that senior players among the Everton dressing room have lost faith in Martinez’s tactics and deem the Spaniard as naive, while another source claims he is not the flavor of the month with the top young talents at the club either. All of that, coupled with recent poor results on the pitch and the promise of significant investment from British-Iranian businessman Farhad Moshiri — who became the new majority shareholder at Everton last week which could see him pump millions into the club — make Martinez’s future an increasingly uncertain one. Locals at Goodison claim that current fan unrest towards a manager is the highest its been in decades.

True, Everton is fun to watch and has a raft of talented players like John Stones, Ross Barkley, Romelu Lukaku, Seamus Colemanand Kevin Mirallas, but with a deep Europa League run hurting their PL form and leading to an 11th place finish last season, the Toffees currently stagnant in midtable this term. Will Martinez be let go this summer ahead of what will be his fourth season in charge at Goodison?

This season players such as Leighton Baines, Tim Howard and Gerard Deulofeu have been used sparingly since January, while Steven Naismith left after appearing to be frozen out.

After a sensational start to life on Merseyside which saw the former Swansea and Wigan coach lead the Toffees to a fifth-place finish, Martinez seems to be walking a tightrope. If Everton lose their FA Cup quarterfinal clash at home against Chelsea this weekend then expect the fan unrest, and pressure on Martinez, to grow.

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/03...alyzing-the-title-race-with-nine-games-to-go/
 
We didn't beat them all. You put forward the 3-3 with Liverpool as if it was a great result.

Moyes got called a bottler, if Martinez has got an equal record doesn't that make him a bottler? That Palace game at home in his first season was one of the biggest bottle jobs going.

of the games we won... we beat the teams we beat, obviously.

And no I wouldn't call RM a bottler.

RM at least got rid of the inferiority complex that Moyes pretty much set in stone.

What RM has tended to do is to be naive and I won't defend him for that.

But you're pure hatred for him and the inability to see his many good points is something else mate...
 

To be honest, I'd be interested to see someone write a completely well balanced argument and actually consider the good things Roberto has done for us, with his negative aspects. An article published by GOT or Everton Arent We maybe, because this is all the most tunnel visioned, one sided argument I've ever read.

What do you need anyone to write a 'well-balanced' article about his positive and negative achievements for? Just look at his win ratio since he's been here and over his full career. Compare it with other managers (many of whom we look down our noses at.) Look at the league table in relation to the calibre of our squad and the comparative league positions/squads of many clubs around & immediately us.

Then make your own mind up.

If still unsure, wait until after Chelsea have knocked us out on Saturday and study the whole picture again without any FA cup gloss on it.
 
of the games we won... we beat the teams we beat, obviously.

And no I wouldn't call RM a bottler.

RM at least got rid of the inferiority complex that Moyes pretty much set in stone.

What RM has tended to do is to be naive and I won't defend him for that.

But you're pure hatred for him and the inability to see his many good points is something else mate...
Martinez is so weak mate its got through to the players.
 
Martinez is so weak mate its got through to the players.

yes that maybe the case.

But the players also could try showing some grit and proving they're as good as we think they are. A few too many of them have failed to step up when needed this season and they shouldn't escape the blame for that just as Martinez shouldn't escape the blame for his mistakes.
 
RM's big game record is just as bad if not worse than Moyes. I've counted one game of note (Arsenal home 13/14) that we've won (compounded somewhat by losing to Palace straight after). Every other significant game against decent opposition (derbies, Europa knockouts, cup games v prem opposition, games away at top 6) we haven't shown up for at all.

RM's away record against the top 4 in the league was the worst since Kendall MK III at one point this season. Don't see it being any different now.

Can't think of one tough cup knockout game we've won under him either.
 

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