Roberto Martinez discussion

[EddyKent]

Chris Sutton tore him a new one after we'd beat Chelsea 3-1 mate.

He's an utter b***. He didn't even get the criticism right. There's a lot to criticise RM for but Sutton was banging on about it being our possession football that cost us and full backs bombing on - whereas it's simply down to the fact we can't defend. I think it was Townsend or Chapman that pointed out to him how good we'd been going forward and he just completely shook it off.

Arrogant and clueless and I've been reliably informed a horrid person as well.

Got nothing wrong with people slating RM for what he deserves slating for, however. One thing Sutton did get right was RM making excuses - it's becoming Rogers-esque in that manner.

Oh absolutely. He speaks wham does that Sutton. But it was refreshing to see at the very minimum, one member of the media, albeit a total snake, really laying into him. Wish it happens more.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

There is one massive concern of mine that many of you are kind of guilty of.
Why the hell cant we have a consistent league run and win a cup ? All of this 'if he wins a cup he will be fine' doesn't wash with me. You lot demand the best but then settle for either or ?!
With the SQUAD available to him Bobby should be doing better than he is, don't spout NSNO then settle for either/or.
Top 8 should be the minimum with a strong FA Cup at the very least.
Prove us wrong Bobby.....

 

[davek]

Wow ! We have already gone 20 years playing both good and bad football. If we have to spawn a series of 1-0 wins to win a silver pot then god strike me down im willing to sell my soul to the devil.
Once we win a trophy then we can build from that slowly but surely to a better style of play. Win first enjoy later.

The School of Science - there's a reason for the name.

 

[BlueToff]

There is one massive concern of mine that many of you are kind of guilty of.
Why the hell cant we have a consistent league run and win a cup ? All of this 'if he wins a cup he will be fine' doesn't wash with me. You lot demand the best but then settle for either or ?!
With the SQUAD available to him Bobby should be doing better than he is, don't spout NSNO then settle for either/or.
Top 8 should be the minimum with a strong FA Cup at the very least.
Prove us wrong Bobby.....

This squad - and I agree with Townsend - isn't actually top four material if you put this as a 'normal' season.

It is however top six/seven and because of the context of the slip ups by the big teams and the form of Leicester and Spurs it makes it the missed opportunity that it is.

We were so close the other day but really, Bobby messed up big style and then the players capitulated. A worrying trend that we seemed to have halted.

 

[Ashtonian]

Ash mate there wasn't any need for a change. That's the point.

At 75 minutes nobody looked dead on their feet. They were all still shifting across and we were pressing W.Ham back.

There's been plenty of times - especially in the last few weeks (Bournemouth springs to mind) - where we've left subs until the 80th minute to make sure our shape was sound.

Martinez changed it too soon and then yes, selected the wrong person to bring on. The fact is though we were 'shutting up shop' perfectly fine with Lennon on.

McCarthy and Besic were doing just what you pointed out until RM made that change and we lost our shape.

i agree we were controlling the game for the best part but bringing on the likes of Song was always going to have an impact on our hold on the game in that respect. They added more into midfield to break up hat we could do and limit the ball going forward to the striker(s) which actually worked. Whether or not Niasse was on the pitch or not, we then found it harder to play the ball through with the extra man in midfield from that point which is why our continued attacking led nowhere bar a half run from niasse.

What i am saying is we should have had 9 men behind the ball in that situation like any other club would do. No faffing about up the pitch, we had 2 goals already, we should have been content with that and just stopping them playing. Whether or not keeping the players on would have made a difference is something that cannot be proven either way now, but 9 men defending the space for only 15 minutes would have a damn sight better chance of winning the game.

Sometimes in football you just need to know when to hang on to what you have, Moyes was fantastic at doing this, we never capitulated in those scenarios under him, that is the difference here, we lost yet another winning lead at a point in the game we shouldn't be.

 

[deipnosophist]

Nah it's called having a different opinion mate. I like you and respect your views but the fact remains that airing an opposing view on a supporters forum isn't "cognitive dissonance".
You've got your head stuck in the clouds as much as any member of the cult. Different cloud, different view. Absolutely fine.

But R Martinez's PL stats (with both Wigan and Everton) suggest my head isn't in the clouds at all...surely you can see this?

 

[BlueToff]

The School of Science - there's a reason for the name.

Dave, let's be sensible at least now.

RM ultimately proved you and me and a few others wrong on Saturday when we said he had changed.

I still don't want him to go, but there's no excuses for the error that he made when all he needed to do was carry on what he had been doing.

Factors such as Mirallas and the penalty miss shouldn't and won't be ignored, but ultimately the manager takes responsibility for Saturday.

Now, he needs to show that even if not accepting responsibility in public, he's learnt his lessons. And there's two huge, season-defining games now coming up for him and the team.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

The School of Science - there's a reason for the name.

I don't believe in School of science or NSNO, I don't believe in we are better than Leicester or Spurs. The fact of the matter is that we are a mid table team with bobby in charge, we have won nothing for 20 odd years and we still consider ourselves a top dog yet we are happy to settle for either/or (cup run or top 10) right now we need to show our 'top dog' mentality and tell Martinez to step up or step out of the way. Liverpool's worst squad in years is above our best. Even Chelsea are considered vast underachievers this year and guess what ?!


Yep, above us.

 

[neil999]

i agree we were controlling the game for the best part but bringing on the likes of Song was always going to have an impact on our hold on the game in that respect. They added more into midfield to break up hat we could do and limit the ball going forward to the striker(s) which actually worked. Whether or not Niasse was on the pitch or not, we then found it harder to play the ball through with the extra man in midfield from that point which is why our continued attacking led nowhere bar a half run from niasse.

What i am saying is we should have had 9 men behind the ball in that situation like any other club would do. No faffing about up the pitch, we had 2 goals already, we should have been content with that and just stopping them playing. Whether or not keeping the players on would have made a difference is something that cannot be proven either way now, but 9 men defending the space for only 15 minutes would have a damn sight better chance of winning the game.

Sometimes in football you just need to know when to hang on to what you have, Moyes was fantastic at doing this, we never capitulated in those scenarios under him, that is the difference here, we lost yet another winning lead at a point in the game we shouldn't be.

we did not tend to lose in the last few minutes under moyes granted, however we would hardly ever win the big games and often lose leads - chelsea final, liverpool semi...the way we have lost games under martinez is alot more painful so highlighted more

we cant go back to the moyes style era, that brought us very little

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

What i am saying is we should have had 9 men behind the ball in that situation like any other club would do. No faffing about up the pitch, we had 2 goals already, we should have been content with that and just stopping them playing. Whether or not keeping the players on would have made a difference is something that cannot be proven either way now, but 9 men defending the space for only 15 minutes would have a damn sight better chance of winning the game.

Sometimes in football you just need to know when to hang on to what you have, Moyes was fantastic at doing this, we never capitulated in those scenarios under him, that is the difference here, we lost yet another winning lead at a point in the game we shouldn't be.

We would just have had everyone saying Bobby was wrong because we were sitting back, inviting pressure, had no outball, no ambition etc if he'd have done that.

There is no decision Bobby can make and not get lambasted for being wrong by a vocal section of our support and especially on here.

 

[BlueToff]

i agree we were controlling the game for the best part but bringing on the likes of Song was always going to have an impact on our hold on the game in that respect. They added more into midfield to break up hat we could do and limit the ball going forward to the striker(s) which actually worked. Whether or not Niasse was on the pitch or not, we then found it harder to play the ball through with the extra man in midfield from that point which is why our continued attacking led nowhere bar a half run from niasse.

What i am saying is we should have had 9 men behind the ball in that situation like any other club would do. No faffing about up the pitch, we had 2 goals already, we should have been content with that and just stopping them playing. Whether or not keeping the players on would have made a difference is something that cannot be proven either way now, but 9 men defending the space for only 15 minutes would have a damn sight better chance of winning the game.

Sometimes in football you just need to know when to hang on to what you have, Moyes was fantastic at doing this, we never capitulated in those scenarios under him, that is the difference here, we lost yet another winning lead at a point in the game we shouldn't be.

But the one thing Song needs is time and space mate. He wasn't getting any of that due to Lennon buzzing around him and Besic and Barkley pushing up as well. As soon as Lennon went off Song got that time and space to push forward meaning Payet - who likewise had been dropping deep - could get into the more dangerous areas in the final third.

Yes I agree we needed to hang on to what we had. But that could have been done with the players already on the pitch - and then yes he could have made a change on 80 mins for Barry and then taken Rom off for Niasse. Everybody would have seen the logic in that and I think had he made that sub and still lost, then the blame wouldn't have been with him as it's clear he'd tried to shut up shop.

 

[thebluenosebolt]

Moyes got NSNO right???

Chuffing hell.

Personally I hate the motto being held against the players. I still don't think that they aren't trying, but fundamentally they have real mentality issues when it comes to seeing games out.

It's on Martinez and also the experienced players. I thought Jags was atrocious in that final 15 minutes on Saturday. No organisation at all whereas in the 75 minutes previous he'd been excellent.

Moyes did actually get Nsno right in a way yeah. He had a meagre budget compared to Bob so really had a lot less talent to work with but we always over achieved, I would call that far more NSNO than the tripe Ive been sitting through for two seasons now.

 

[deipnosophist]

We would just have had everyone saying Bobby was wrong because we were sitting back, inviting pressure, had no outball, no ambition etc if he'd have done that.

There is no decision Bobby can make and not get lambasted for being wrong by a vocal section of our support and especially on here.

But mate, surely you are at least slightly uncomfortable with the win ratio that R Martinez has bought to Everton (not to mention Wigan). I remain a little confused as to how a normally rational person like you, continues to flog a dead horse. R Martinez is in charge of a hugely talented team...and we're currently 12th. We have won 4 games at home all season. His selections are all over the shop as are his substitutions. He is tactically naïve yet too stubborn and arrogant to concede anything other than the "I thought we were incredible and deserved the 3 points" BS he trots out after nearly every game.
I was pleased when Martinez got the job as he looked and sounded like a breath of fresh air. But incontrovertible facts have doused such hopeful optimism.
In the summer we need to get rid, or next season will be deja vu all over again...

 

[BlueToff]

Moyes did actually get Nsno right in a way yeah. He had a meagre budget compared to Bob so really had a lot less talent to work with but we always over achieved, I would call that far more NSNO than the tripe Ive been sitting through for two seasons now.

Tbh mate I just don't like the fact the motto is held against the team all the time - maybe it's just me.

However, I will say that Moyes tended to bottle it when the 'NSNO' was needed the most. Then again, RM doesn't so much as bottle it, as just go a bit trippy...

 

[Saint Domingo]

Nah!

Who would you swap out of our first team for a West Ham player? I'd have Payet on the left, probably one of their holding mids to partner Besic. Their keeper is also alright, that would be it for me. If you don't think we haven't got a better squad than Weat Ham, you really have to ask yourself whose fault that is.