Roberto Martinez discussion

[Ashtonian]

Tbf mate, it wasn't a lack of reaction. He reacted fine to that Carroll sub at half time. What could he have done to counter that other than what he did with the players we had available?

What messed the game up was when he decided to make a change when there was no need for it. So if anything it was actually his reaction that conspired to our defeat...

There was need for a change though, defensive ones. At 75 minutes any manager with an ounce of common sense would shut up shop and see the win out. Hell a couple of weeks ago a team turned up at goodison, did it for 70 minutes and come away with the points. We should never have even been pushing anywhere up the pitch at that point, it was suicidal.

And for what he could have done different, have barry/macCarthy/Besic restricting the space in front of the box and have the full backs then doubled up making it harder to get a cross in.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

It's a results business and he's not getting them. Understandably, the consensus seems to be time's up.
Not for me, though. The style of football and the youngsters he's brought on give him 1 more season to turn promise into hard results for me.
If we're not top 7 this time next year, I'll be gatecrashing the haters' party, better late than never

 

[mkrudden]

Got to say Mkrudden, I'm quite enjoying life on the fence.

I've defended and still will defend RM for the things he gets right, and I still want him to stay. But if the results don't pick up sharpish then ultimately he will have to go.

Absolutely mate.

He's making mistakes, he knows this. He isn't a total moron, despite what people in here say. He has made changes recently which have made us look a lot more solid.

One more season. Take stock. See what's out there.

 

[neil999]

They don't need a huge budget though because they've spent so much down the years.

Poch came in and trimmed the fat from that squad before adding in his own style and one or three or four younger players either from the academy or signings.

yeah fair point, just trying to see how far off we are from a team like spurs

our best players -lukaku,barkley play in positions of their best players

i wouldnt put one of our defenders ahead of theirs

 

[BlueToff]

Playing with a man sent off and a passenger for the last 12 mins was the reason we lost. We looked very comfortable defending crosses until the Niasse sub although defending crosses is obviously another issue that Martinez has failed to address all season.

This.

Even before the sub we were still letting crosses in.

The difference was that McCarthy was dropping back to provide another body in the area and he was winning headers and/or fouls that he does so well.

The sub completely changed that as we lost our rigid shape, even though Niasse was kind of out on the left.

 

[mkrudden]

Andy Toensend makes Michael Iwen look insightful. By far the stupidest pundit around. He just inhales whatever is on Sky sports and spews it back out. One of the upsides of ITV losing the champions league is not listening to him droning on.

Our squad is miles better than West Hams in almost every position (Payet aside).

Nah!

 

[thebluenosebolt]

So if it's not ALL Bob's fault.. We have to ask why the players are making such daft mistakes every game and at such important times? I personally think it's bobs attitude to making mistakes that's causing it. He has this "don't worry be happy" vibe and it seems the players are running with it. Nsno should be the message thrown out there, It's something I always thought the previous manager got right and something Bob..... Er hasn't.

"Dwbh"... Is that now our clubs motto?

 

[BlueToff]

Absolutely mate.

He's making mistakes, he knows this. He isn't a total moron, despite what people in here say. He has made changes recently which have made us look a lot more solid.

One more season. Take stock. See what's out there.

Yeh he gets until May for me.

If he wins us the FA Cup or somehow gets top 7, then that will mean he deserves some (and I stress some) time next season - but hopefully the owner (whoever that is) will set him targets that if he does not meet by the 10 game mark then he is out.

It's a lot easier to get a manager in the summer or - conversely - around October - than it is in March or April.

 

[EddyKent]

Chris Sutton tore him a new one last night. Pleasing. Wish this happened more.

 

[BlueToff]

So if it's not ALL Bob's fault.. We have to ask why the players are making such daft mistakes every game and at such important times? I personally think it's bobs attitude to making mistakes that's causing it. He has this "don't worry be happy" vibe and it seems the players are running with it. Nsno should be the message thrown out there, It's something I always thought the previous manager got right and something Bob..... Er hasn't.

"Dwbh"... Is that now our clubs motto?

Moyes got NSNO right???

Chuffing hell.

Personally I hate the motto being held against the players. I still don't think that they aren't trying, but fundamentally they have real mentality issues when it comes to seeing games out.

It's on Martinez and also the experienced players. I thought Jags was atrocious in that final 15 minutes on Saturday. No organisation at all whereas in the 75 minutes previous he'd been excellent.

 

[BlueToff]

Chris Sutton tore him a new one last night. Pleasing. Wish this happened more.

Chris Sutton tore him a new one after we'd beat Chelsea 3-1 mate.

He's an utter b***. He didn't even get the criticism right. There's a lot to criticise RM for but Sutton was banging on about it being our possession football that cost us and full backs bombing on - whereas it's simply down to the fact we can't defend. I think it was Townsend or Chapman that pointed out to him how good we'd been going forward and he just completely shook it off.

Arrogant and clueless and I've been reliably informed a horrid person as well.

Got nothing wrong with people slating RM for what he deserves slating for, however. One thing Sutton did get right was RM making excuses - it's becoming Rogers-esque in that manner.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

It depends on your definition of 'football'. I'd rather not win a thing for another 20 years than win something with a disgusting approach to football that he has. He's the Great Satan of football. Don't go there.

Wow ! We have already gone 20 years playing both good and bad football. If we have to spawn a series of 1-0 wins to win a silver pot then god strike me down im willing to sell my soul to the devil.
Once we win a trophy then we can build from that slowly but surely to a better style of play. Win first enjoy later.

 

[dano195]

Martinez will never take blame for anything, he won't blame the players, he'll bang on about stats, possession all the crap that doesn't really matter if you're not scoring more goals than the opposition. So in my eyes the players feel they can get away with it. Martinez obviously doesn't go mad after these late goals we concede. Bournemouth, Chelsea, Stoke, West Ham, all of these games I doubt he lost it with the players for letting a lead slip. I bet he never once blamed himself for poor subs or how we set up. I used to be a massive fan of Martinez but enough is enough!!

 

[BlueToff]

There was need for a change though, defensive ones. At 75 minutes any manager with an ounce of common sense would shut up shop and see the win out. Hell a couple of weeks ago a team turned up at goodison, did it for 70 minutes and come away with the points. We should never have even been pushing anywhere up the pitch at that point, it was suicidal.

And for what he could have done different, have barry/macCarthy/Besic restricting the space in front of the box and have the full backs then doubled up making it harder to get a cross in.

Ash mate there wasn't any need for a change. That's the point.

At 75 minutes nobody looked dead on their feet. They were all still shifting across and we were pressing W.Ham back.

There's been plenty of times - especially in the last few weeks (Bournemouth springs to mind) - where we've left subs until the 80th minute to make sure our shape was sound.

Martinez changed it too soon and then yes, selected the wrong person to bring on. The fact is though we were 'shutting up shop' perfectly fine with Lennon on.

McCarthy and Besic were doing just what you pointed out until RM made that change and we lost our shape.

 

[BlueToff]

yeah fair point, just trying to see how far off we are from a team like spurs

our best players -lukaku,barkley play in positions of their best players

i wouldnt put one of our defenders ahead of theirs

Yep you're spot on. Ironically enough we've not lost to them like.