Roberto Martinez discussion

[daz4matty]

They were going down eventually mate. They'd been staving it off for 5 years.

The club spent 2 years in the championship. It's not RM's fault they failed to use the parachute payments and rebuild in that division...

Who is to say they were going down or not.
One thing is for sure martinez took them down waving the white flag playing suicidal football.
Ask the wigan fans they say he ruined them

 

[BlueToff]

Problem is he will have wasted all of our transfer war chest by then and we will have another season in transition.

Scoring more goals at the same time as conceding more isn't progress in my eyes.

He doesn't waste the transfer money that's my point. Anybody he brings in will be of use to a new manager worth their salt as one thing RM is very good at is picking up good players - just as Moyes was.

And please, can we ban the phrase war chest? It's not specific to you mate, it's just the most talkSPORT thing ever

 

[BlueToff]

Yes finishing 11th the season before he arrived. Staved it off well

yes, the season he arrived which also coincided with the club's budget being cut dramatically...

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Martinez is like a faulty sports car, sure sometimes it seems boss and speeds past others and youre made up with it.

Then it breaks down, few months later the same problem happens again and again.


But it turns out we can go out and afford a boss realiable rolls Royce because were in the money.

Simple answer is, just get the rolls Royce.

 

[neil999]

Martinez is like a faulty sports car, sure sometimes it seems boss and speeds past others and youre made up with it.

Then it breaks down, few months later the same problem happens again and again.


But it turns out we can go out and afford a boss realiable rolls Royce because were in the money.

Simple answer is, just get the rolls Royce.

im just gonna get the train mate

 

[AJC5]

He doesn't waste the transfer money that's my point. Anybody he brings in will be of use to a new manager worth their salt as one thing RM is very good at is picking up good players - just as Moyes was.

And please, can we ban the phrase war chest? It's not specific to you mate, it's just the most talkSPORT thing ever

If we going to change manager I'd sooner the new manager gets to sign the players he wants. Mori and Besic are really the only decent signings Martinez has made. The others have either been known quantities (Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Lennon, Del) or awful (McGeady, Kone, Niasse).

 

[Jacob]

I'm curious what you think good football is?

Why is it a massive rebuilding job?

To be honest, I don't think theres any debate that we are playing good football...its acknowledged by fans and pundits alike across the country. However, the massive issue is that we also flick the switch immediately and play football very badly... the sudden disintegration and lack of structure defensively reflects a huge problem of structure and discipline...who does what...who goes where. Look how many goals we concede from an attacking position - another poor corner kick cleared upfield with purpose by the opposition causing instant mayhem. We then cant close ranks and defend with any intelligence whatsoever and in my eyes the manager's resistance to acknowledging this let alone establishing at least some marking routine means hes in effect weaving his own rope. Hes disappointing on a grand scale with this. The players too need to show some balls on the pitch too as Im sick to death of watching their tacit acceptance on conceding a poor goal of what we can all see coming a mile off. If its changed, we can consolidate the advantage we normally gain through that good football and attacking flair we display Ive no doubt whatsoever. The question is, how big is the if.

 

[IRO1977]

I say give him until the end of the season then let him go barring a miraculous upturn in form. I'm balding faster than he is watching this team week in week out ffs

 

[Tubey]

I'd personally say we've progressed in terms of our overall play to be able to be a team that can go from challenging to a top six place to challenging for and getting in the top four consistently - I honestly believe that in the long-run the basic premise of Martinez's style will help us achieve that.

But I agree that due to his inflexibility in certain aspects - defending being the most obvious one - he has shot himself and us in the foot many times - and the experienced players have not stepped up to the plate on enough occasions to drag us through it.

So, the question for me is just whether RM is the right manager to maintain this system but make the crucial tweaks and changes that can take it on to the next level. I'm willing to wait until this season pans out - barring any collapses in our next couple of games - and then reassess in the summer.

You need a solid base to attack from - Martinez has never and will never understand that unfortunately.

It's why we were so successful season one. The rigidity of Moyes' system still lingered while Martinez took the leash off in an attacking sense.

Unfortunately, that balance has long gone. He's the anti-Moyes in all the right and wrong ways.

 

[Ashtonian]

I am actually now wondering what sticks will be used to beat martinez with if we beat chelsea...

Hes on track for me with a few blips which dont take much to sort out.

if be more concerned if we werent the better team in games.

we would still be 12th in the league so, pretty much the same ones

 

[Toffeeslam]

Martinez is like a faulty sports car, sure sometimes it seems boss and speeds past others and youre made up with it.

Then it breaks down, few months later the same problem happens again and again.


But it turns out we can go out and afford a boss realiable rolls Royce because were in the money.

Simple answer is, just get the rolls Royce.

If we going to change manager I'd sooner the new manager gets to sign the players he wants. Mori and Besic are really the only decent signings Martinez has made. The others have either been known quantities (Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Lennon, Del) or awful (McGeady, Kone, Niasse).

TBF Niasse hasn't really had a run so we can't judge him but what's also clear is that we need a big strong world class centre half with some leadership qualities as the people we have although good are just not leaders

Of course we need a new manager in the dugout too

 

[BlueToff]

If we going to change manager I'd sooner the new manager gets to sign the players he wants. Mori and Besic are really the only decent signings Martinez has made. The others have either been known quantities (Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Lennon, Del) or awful (McGeady, Kone, Niasse).

Eh?

Wow.

I mean c'mon mate.

Besic and Mori. Lukaku wasn't really a 'known' quantity. He'd had a great season at WBA but didn't start every game (in fact far from it) and barely ever finished them. McCarthy, similarly, was only 22 and has turned out a great signing when many were questioning him as he'd been relegated.

Bringing Barry in was a masterstroke in that first season. Del was by far a 'known quantity' and Lennon coming here has pretty much rejuvinated his career. Galloway is another one who looks to be a great signing and Robles as well could well become a very very good goalkeeper. Cleverley is a good signing on a free who fits into pretty much any style of play you need him to.

The only 'failures', I can see would be Atsu (loan so little risk), Traore (loan again), McGeady and Kone (for a combined £6.5m). Eto'o did really well for the first three months and then something went wrong but again bar the signing on fee and wages cost us no transfer money...

 

[Little Ralphy]

Any manager that is brought in to replace RM should be somebody of a similar ilk but with the experience to give us what we need. It's why Flores would be my choice purely because of his defensive record and experience at huge clubs in Spain.

Also, it's not like RM is Rogers in the transfer market. He rarely buys duds or spends serious money on them anyway. I don't think a new manager would come into our squad and find he didn't like any of RM's signings. RM is a lot like Moyes in that respect - he gets players (or the big-mooney players) that would be of use to any manager.

I can see what you mean mate, but it's not strictly true. Someone like Mourinho for example uses players who are tactically disciplined to play their style of football. Most of the better managers will want this, and that is a million miles away from what Martinez looks for in a player.

If there are to be signings in the Summer, they need to be made by whoever is going to be in charge long term.

 

[BlueToff]

You need a solid base to attack from - Martinez has never and will never understand that unfortunately.

It's why we were so successful season one. The rigidity of Moyes' system still lingered while Martinez took the leash off in an attacking sense.

Unfortunately, that balance has long gone. He's the anti-Moyes in all the right and wrong ways.

Well that's why I think that his system will lead to success in the long run mate.

It needs to get a semblance of that rigidity back.

Now, i'm not definitely saying RM can do that (it looks unlikely at this stage) - but i'm still willing to give him the next two months now to show he can do (as he has in certain games this season - e.g. Sotton (a), Stoke (a), Chelsea (h), City (h), City (a - league).

If he doesn't and we don't get feasible progress as an end result (top 7/8 or FA Cup) then, as I've said, happy to see him replaced

 

[whiteshadow]

If we going to change manager I'd sooner the new manager gets to sign the players he wants. Mori and Besic are really the only decent signings Martinez has made. The others have either been known quantities (Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Lennon, Del) or awful (McGeady, Kone, Niasse).

Lukaku - Such a proven, known quantity that Chelsea sold him and half our fans wanted to get rid of him last season as his hold up play wasn't great.

McCarthy - So proven that loads of fans question why we were buying rubbish Wigan players.

Del - So proven that we got him cheap after a failed stint at a Spanish club.

McGeady - Was bought for a nominal fee. He did ok when he first came here for a time. His signing was a gamble but one with minimal risk that didn't cost much. I doubt RM expected him to be a world beater for the fee we paid. He was bought as a squad player and despite not being great was worth taking a punt on.

Kone - Not set the world alight, true but suffered a serious injury and despite how much people criticise him he seems to help Rom to find the back of the net when he does play.

Niasse - Seriously? He's barely even kicked a ball. Idiotic even using that as evidence of a bad transfer. Stupidity at it's finest.