Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluewally]

Good article.

For me, if he does go in the next few weeks it would only be due to an implosion in the next two games.

If we had to have a caretaker in as well, then for me there's only two options:

Royle or Reid.

If they'd be willing to take up the mantle, it'd give us the time that @bluewally has mentioned. They also have the senior experience.

Other than those though I don't see another viable option as caretaker manager.

This is why for me Dave is the Roberto Martinez of the forum. Unwavering in being unable to see the problems and a belief that if you keep repeating the same thing it will come good.

You are the "manager we want" of the forum. Flexible and open to change, willing to accept that results matter and an acknowledgement that there is a balance to find.

 

[Blues Harp]

Roberto took Wigan to Wembley and their name is engraved for ever on the cup.

2 years after we last won a trophy i was at the last home game of the season v Coventry - we had to better Bolton's result at Chelsea to stay up...remember ? No way was I thinking yeah we've won Cups and championships so I don't mind being relegated - unbelievable !!

 

[bcblue1878]

How did it affect the shape when it was a like for like change?

Not sure if you were there Zat, but honestly it really wasn't a like for like change. The whole dynamic of the team changed, at the same time the whole atmosphere in the ground changed!

 

[BlueToff]

Do you know them personally mate?

I disagree, Unsworth (doesn;'t even have to be him) wouldn't be the long term manager and they'd know that. It'd generate a bit of excitement as to who we might get in. As I said yesterday, it's about changing the mentality of the club, and you hit the headlines, and then again when you have someone lined up to take over when the season ends. Especially if that someone is of a really high calibre.

No I don't, but do they seem like the type of players who would think that instilling the inexperienced U21 manager as caretaker boss as the first move as a new owner would make them likely to stay on?

If RM does leave in the next few weeks, then as I've mentioned above the only people I would be happy going anywhere near the job would be Royle or Reidy.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Who is to say they were going down or not.
One thing is for sure martinez took them down waving the white flag playing suicidal football.
Ask the wigan fans they say he ruined them

Wigan had one of the smallest wage bills in the Premier League. Whelan was actually cutting it while clubs like Southampton were spending on a massive scale. The result was inevitable.

Roberto didn't have the depth of squad to compete in two competitions. But I don't know a Wigan fan who would swap the cup win for survival in the Premier League.

 

[BlueToff]

2 years after we last won a trophy i was at the last home game of the season v Coventry - we had to better Bolton's result at Chelsea to stay up...remember ? No way was I thinking yeah we've won Cups and championships so I don't mind being relegated - unbelievable !!

We're Everton. Not Wigan. It's slightly different without trying to look down on Wigan fans.

We're expected to be up competing in the last 8 of cups. They aren't.

 

[BlueToff]

This is why for me Dave is the Roberto Martinez of the forum. Unwavering in being unable to see the problems and a belief that if you keep repeating the same thing it will come good.

You are the "manager we want" of the forum. Flexible and open to change, willing to accept that results matter and an acknowledgement that there is a balance to find.

Haha cheers mate.

I feel all blushed now...

But no I know we have our differences but I'ms till sticking by RM (for the time being), but Saturday has shifted my opinion quite a bit.

I'm now more along the lines of views of people like @roydo or @MoutsGoat that tbh I can see the pros and cons of keeping him, and the pros and cons of sacking him.

However, I still don't think that we should get rid and replace him with a caretaker manager of the likes of Dunc or Unsworth, as much as they were good players for us. It'd have to be for Royle or Reidy to be able to take up the mantle for 6 or 7 games.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Go and look at their accounts cos they tell a different story.

Why not save us all the trouble and post them up here?

 

[AJC5]

Lukaku - Such a proven, known quantity that Chelsea sold him and half our fans wanted to get rid of him last season as his hold up play wasn't great.

McCarthy - So proven that loads of fans question why we were buying rubbish Wigan players.

Del - So proven that we got him cheap after a failed stint at a Spanish club.

McGeady - Was bought for a nominal fee. He did ok when he first came here for a time. His signing was a gamble but one with minimal risk that didn't cost much. I doubt RM expected him to be a world beater for the fee we paid. He was bought as a squad player and despite not being great was worth taking a punt on.

Kone - Not set the world alight, true but suffered a serious injury and despite how much people criticise him he seems to help Rom to find the back of the net when he does play.

Niasse - Seriously? He's barely even kicked a ball. Idiotic even using that as evidence of a bad transfer. Stupidity at it's finest.

Lukaku, Barry and Del were all loan signings originally so no risk. McCarthy was a known quantity to Martinez, he'd just managed him. Niasse time will tell but at the moment he looks barely semi pro standard.

 

[Little Ralphy]

No I don't, but do they seem like the type of players who would think that instilling the inexperienced U21 manager as caretaker boss as the first move as a new owner would make them likely to stay on?

If RM does leave in the next few weeks, then as I've mentioned above the only people I would be happy going anywhere near the job would be Royle or Reidy.

As opposed to the man who keeps leading them to defeats? Whose career has been spent at the lower end of the football scale, or his backroom staff who barely have a top level appearance between them? I said it yesterday, some people command instant respect and none of Martinez' backroom staff are those kind of people.

Ferguson gets more respect and he doesn't have anywhere near the relevant coaching experience.

Joe Royle is a legend and short term maybe he could take it on, but at his age he may not want to. Although when has Big Joe ever said no to Everton.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Why not save us all the trouble and post them up here?

haha so you're going to keep posting as if it's fact without actually knowing any of the details behind what you are posting?

Look them up yourself, it'll be good practice before you start posting hearsay off as fact. They're pretty easy to find.

 

[Lanolin]

But the home record is only half of the story. And critics keep quoting it without mentioning the other half, the away record.

Everton home record 15 4 4 7 29 26 +3 16

Everton away record 13 5 7 1 22 13 +9 22

Wow, that's amazing. Someone should come up with some sort of method of combining the two, and documenting how we're doing in relation to others in the league. They could call it the League chair, or the league desk, or maybe name it after some other item of furniture. I bet we'd be dead high up it whatever they called it.

 

[Coffee and TV]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-faith-in-robert-martinez-ahead-of-crucial/?x

Everton players losing faith in Roberto Martinez ahead of crucial FA Cup tie

Robert Martinez is facing a fight to stop Everton players losing faith in his gung-ho philosophy with the pressure on the Spaniard set to increase if the club are knocked out of the FA Cup.

Martinez’s team sank to their seventh Premier League defeat of the season at Goodison Park against West Ham United and have now conceded more goals at home (26) than any other top-flight club.

Everton are 12th in the Premier League table and face the threat of finishing a season in which they hoped to challenge for European qualification in the bottom half.

That would make holding on to star players Romelu Lukaku, John Stones and Ross Barkley even more difficult, despite investment from new majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri.

Robert Moshiri, Everton's new majority shareholder CREDIT: SIMON DAWSON
The FA Cup could still prove a saving grace for Martinez, with Everton due to host Chelsea in the quarter-finals on Saturday but another home defeat will pile the pressure on the manager.

Martinez’s bold approach both on and off the pitch has raised eyebrows inside and outside Goodison Park, with growing questions now being asked over whether or not it is correct.

The 42-year-old can point to the fact that Everton’s defensive record away from Goodison Park is far better. They have conceded just 13 goals on their travels, but have still been hit by a couple crushing late blows against Bournemouth and Chelsea.

Everton have dropped 14 points from winning positions this season and a failure to close out games under Martinez has become a big frustration among the club’s players. This is not a new trend, as the club last season dropped a league-high 19 points after going ahead in games.

After conceding in the eighth minute of injury time for the second time this season against Chelsea, Martinez said: “We want to be a brave team and win games by not running the clock down or playing with aspects that aren’t what we want to be.”

Telegraph Sport, however, understands that a number of Everton players would like adopt a more savvy approach to trying to protect leads and keep the opposition out. They want to play for a winning team.

Everton concede against West Ham CREDIT: REX
It is not just in the League where Everton have been caught out. Martinez’s team secured a Capital One Cup semi-final first-leg advantage against Manchester City and took a shock lead at the Etihad. But he still refused to shut up shop and Manuel Pellegrini’s team eventually overturned the deficit and went on to win the competition.

The decision to move Stones to right-back and then replace him with Seamus Coleman in the second leg of the City tie was the source of great surprise.

Stones subsequently received a barrage of criticism for his performance, but many of his team-mates believe the 21-year-old has been unfairly judged against Martinez’s lofty public statements about the player.

Martinez has piled pressure on to the shoulders of Stones by claiming he will be a future England captain and become a “great” for his country.

John Stones in action against Manchester United
Stones is not the only recipient of over-the-top public remarks from Martinez, who claimed Tom Cleverly is “one of the most sensational free transfers in Premier League history” and described Gareth Barry as “one of the best English players ever.”

While his comments have become the butt of several jokes around Everton, there is a feeling that Martinez is encouraging ridicule and extra pressure on to his players.

Martinez can claim plenty of credit for the way his encouragement and attacking philosophy has helped the likes of striker Lukaku and Barkley to blossom.

But it has not gone unnoticed that his public comments and attempted praise of Barkley ahead of the West Ham game once again came back to haunt the team.

Everton look dejected after the defeat to West Ham CREDIT: REX
Martinez wound up West Ham and their fans by claiming that he could have signed Dimitri Payet, but passed up the opportunity because he had already earmarked Barkley for the number 10 role.

Payet responded by scoring West Ham’s dramatic winning goal at Goodison Park that once again highlighted Everton’s failings under Martinez.

Moshiri will wait until the summer before deciding whether any major personnel changes are needed at Everton.

But the billionaire investor is determined to push the club forwards and Martinez needs to convince his new boss and his players that he remains the best man for the job – starting in the FA Cup this weekend.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

He's making a valid point that RM isn't just to blame though.

I don't agree with Zat on the sub, as it clearly effected our shape. However, he is right in what he says that had the players done what they were tasked with it could also be a different story.

I think we all know Martinez isn't the only one to blame.

However a lot of people seem to forget if you are a manager, in any organisation, you are ultimately responsible.

Let's imagine I own a small company and money or stock is going missing. Who do I turn to about this? My manager. I expect him to sort it. If he doesn't then I must assume a) he is in on it or b) he is not competent enough to rectify the situation.

Martinez signed Mori in the knowledge we had trouble defending set pieces and corners. So even if those 2 goals are the fault of Mori, ultimately I would trace it back to Martinez.

 

[BlueToff]

As opposed to the man who keeps leading them to defeats? Whose career has been spent at the lower end of the football scale, or his backroom staff who barely have a top level appearance between them? I said it yesterday, some people command instant respect and none of Martinez' backroom staff are those kind of people.

Ferguson gets more respect and he doesn't have anywhere near the relevant coaching experience.

Joe Royle is a legend and short term maybe he could take it on, but at his age he may not want to. Although when has Big Joe ever said no to Everton.

Martinez is also the man that has developed them and given them their shot at the big time and played a system that - regardless of the results in this case - has allowed them to flourish as individuals.

If he did go, it has to be Royle or Reid as a 'caretaker' as they're bonafide club legends and have the experience to boot.