Roberto Martinez discussion

[hktoffee]

6th is nowhere. In fact it's worse than finishing 12th, at least with the latter you dont get the kick in the balls consolation prize of a EL campaign.

1st of April is a bit early. Let's finish 12th every season you must be happy.

 

[Tubey]

6th is nowhere. In fact it's worse than finishing 12th, at least with the latter you dont get the kick in the balls consolation prize of a EL campaign.

This is possibly your best yet. Unfortunately, it's just so blatant that you won't get any bites I don't think, but it's beautiful in its' pure insanity.

 

[Prevenger17]

This is possibly your best yet. Unfortunately, it's just so blatant that you won't get any bites I don't think, but it's beautiful in its' pure insanity.

It just got about 10 bites in a row. He has a point tbf, I'd prefer to finish 8th than 5th.

 

[Jreverton1]

6th is nowhere. In fact it's worse than finishing 12th, at least with the latter you dont get the kick in the balls consolation prize of a EL campaign.

WOW! Did you actually just write that?

 

[Tubey]

It just got about 10 bites in a row. He has a point tbf, I'd prefer to finish 8th than 5th.

Not bites though, just people going "oh wow" at the lunacy of it.

And yours isn't subtle enough either, although an admirable effort

 

[Prevenger17]

Not bites though, just people going "oh wow" at the lunacy of it.

And yours isn't subtle enough either, although an admirable effort

Ah Tubes, get away from my pile of coats

 

[bluestevon]

Nonsense. There's no problem with defensive solidity when we went 12 games conceding 8 goals. Where was that analysis then? That's why your point cant be taken seriously. Either be consistent and argue that case when we go through a period of tightness at the back or never use it as an argument.

Saturday's fiasco seems to have brought this back on the front burner again for the first time in about three months. And what happened there? With 10 minutes left those players had defended well enough. The last few minutes they panicked after we got pegged back to 2-1 and their arses went. Nothing to do with a manager when those cowards fail to hold their nerve. He's got a bunch of jelly fish there and needs to add some steel and leadership asap. That will be added in the summer and then we'll see no more of this cowardice in the line of fire.

Bournmouth 0
West Brom 1
Stoke 0
Newcastle 0
Carlisle 0 (yeah still going to include it even though its against a lower league team)
Man City 3
Swansea 2
Chelsea 3
Man City 0
Dagenham and Redbrige 0 (yeah another jke team but will include it also)
Man City 1
Spurs 1

Thats not 8 goals conceded in 12 games mate - it is 11 goals in 12 games - and thats including 2 games against lower league sides that we had clean sheets in, also as for that 12 game stretch being a period tight at the back, right in the middle of that stretch of games we conceded 8 goals in 3 games - knocked out the cup, lost to swansea 2-1 at home and threw away a 2 goals lead and then a 3-2 lead against Chelsea, hardly stirling defensive grit was it?

 

[Blue Cheese]

Look at the table, look at last seasons table and look at his record in total, I don't give a hoot about a record points total 3 seasons ago, look at the whole package and ask yourself, honestly, be truthful, is it good enough.

Not just results wise but performance wise as well because the fantastic games are the anomaly.

Answers on a postcard.

 

[davek]

Considering 96% of your argument in defence of martinez is centred around 'the 72 point wonderful achievement season' dave isn't that a little hypocritical of you critising someone else using past seasons performance as a yardstick?

The excitement around the Moshiri takeover taking us to the next level is people hoping it will take us from the level we had been at - ie around the spurs level up and to distance ourselves from the pack of teams that has customarily been 'middle of the pack' in the true sense of the word and that are now alarmingly above us - and for us to being able to challenge the level above that - the Arsenal level if you will, ofc the last two seasons has seen spurs and us move a huge distance apart from the customary 1 or 2 place difference either way we have had for a long time with them, the difference between Martinez and pochettino shall we call as being the chief reason that gulf has happened?

There is no level below the elite that you have to necessarily be at and move to the next level. Did Leicester and West Ham this season need that plateau to move off from? It's all a gloop of nothingness between elite and relegation fodder. One team or two per season breaks from the mess to figure at the top end and trouble the elite. That's the pattern. The only thing consistent 6th and 7th place spots got for us under Moyes was a pat on the head from the patronising pundits. It led to nothing and was leading nowhere.

Dave when will you realsie that a points total achieved in one season only matters in terms of where it gets you finishing in that season, who cares if 72 would have finished us in 4th a lot of seasons - they where different seasons with different strength of teams, christ mate it's like the rs saying that their points total for the 2013/14 season when they came second would have won them the league in 2010/11, 2002/2003 or 2000/2001 - simple fact - they didn't so it doesn't matter one little bit what they got, they came second, we came 5th not 4th and so fantastic we got 72 points - but what did that actually matter, spurs also got 69 points in that season as well btw - just 3 short of their record ever total in the prem - they sacked their manager that summer and hired a much better one. Said repeatedly to you as well AVB got a club record 72 points with Spurs mate - didn't see Spurs fans tearing their hair out when he left them though

Also you alarmingly don't ever vgive Moyes a huge amount of credit for that aberration of a points total do you? Can vault my past opinions of Moyes and you will see i hated the bloke, but even i can admit that Martinez sucess can now be judged by his track record before and after that first season to have hugely beneffited from the Moyes fitness and discipline instilled in the players, something that has now completely been eroded

The number of points is an important benchmark to be set. That's the issue here, not what it didn't get. That now is the total to be surpassed by this club in order to get a sniff of a CL place. If you think it's unimportant staging post then you're wrong. It stands out as a reminder that we can compete to that level and amass that number of points. More-so now it has relevancy, because if there's cash there to boost our competitiveness then there's no excuse never to fail to meet it or run it very close indeed. Moyes took us to 65 points; Martinez to 72 points. Martinez and his successor will have to better that now to progress us on.

Built a club from the ahses - assume you mean Swansea - yeah he did a very good job putting in a style of football and system in place their - and a few managers afterward came along and improved the teams performance and got them to where martinez failed to do - promoted to the prem, and they kept them their as well - something martinez ultimatley yet again failed to do, so in many ways Martinez at Swansea did what on the continent they would hire a director of football to do - and frankly mate that is what he would be best suited to, implement a system and stlye of play, bring playert sin and then leave the job of managing them to someone who actually is a better manager than he has shown himself plainly to be.

Alex McCleish also got the FA Cup for a smiliarly crap Birmingham side mate, can list a fair few other managers who will hardly be lauded in years to come for being great managers. Ultimately his job was to keep Wigan in the league and he failed to do so, you really reckon that clubs at the bottom hire managers with the remit of 'get us a cup and we don't mind going down' or do you think they hire saying 'keep us in the league at all costs'?

Martinez didn't get Swansea to the PL because he never rally had a shot at it. He took them up to the Championship then finished 8th first season there. A very good stage for someone to come in and finish off the job when he got off to Wigan. Talk about damned with faint praise: he gave Swansea a modern history.

These achievements at Swansea and Wigan and his first season at Everton are scoffed at by people who should know better. "Ahh, it was ages ago and it was only a style of play and single promotion/an FA Cup win/it was only 72 points". As if we've had anything remotely like that to shout about from an Everton manager for the past 20 years!

Very blase and arrogant about our real status as a club that's huge but been in the doldrums for way too long to look down its nose at a manager like Roberto, that's for sure.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

6th is worse that 12th - that's the kind of logic that would have us laughing our heads off if it was on rawk.

We're a step away from an alternative Martinez league table here lads.....

 

[Goat]

Dave, the fact is, Martinez has spent 7 seasons in this league and only got a team in the top half once.

He took over a team in wigan that finished 8th prior to him taking over, he took them into the league below.

He took over a team in Everton that finished 8th prior to him taking over, hes took us to 12th currently, how low shall we fall until we say enough is enough?

He simply does not know how to Manage a premier league club.

Maybe he should go back to League One and learn his trade?

 

[Toast]

6th is worse that 12th - that's the kind of logic that would have us laughing our heads off if it was on rawk.

We're a step away from an alternative Martinez league table here lads.....

Us Blues would have us lower in the alternative league table than in the actual real table though !!

 

[davek]

You'd be surprised to be honest mate - a lot of the fans i work with say they are surprised he got this long without people working out he is stubborn and has holes in his skill set. I was quite shocked to hear that i thought he would be seen as a god to them. Evidently not.

Ask them if they'd rather have won the cup or not win it then be relegated within a couple of seasons of not winning it...because that's where Whelan's cost cutting was taking them.

They should be on their hands and knees to Martinez.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

6th is worse that 12th - that's the kind of logic that would have us laughing our heads off if it was on rawk.

We're a step away from an alternative Martinez league table here lads.....

 

[Goat]

Martinezs entire career can be summed up in his first paragraph on Wiki :

In his first home game at the DW Stadium, however, the team slumped to a 1–0 defeat to newly promoted Wolverhampton Wanderers, and this was followed by a 5–0 defeat against Manchester United, despite being 0–0 at half time. This inconsistency set the tone for Martínez's first season in charge, with home wins against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal, but also a series of heavy defeats. This included a 9–1 defeat away to Tottenham Hotspur on 22 November 2009, a club record defeat for Wigan.


No further questions your honour.