Roberto Martinez discussion

[chicoazul]

The thing that does my head in most is the load of tosh he speaks. I know he's a dead super positive glass half full lid but it's in complete contrast to the fanbase.

We want gobshites calling out as gobshites and the players told to get a grip when they get done over by beauts.

He just keeps on talking though. Shhh for a bit Martinez lid and get your players dead angry and showing their response through volleying seven kinds out of anyone unfortunate to go toe to toe with them. That's Everton that.

 

[Ashtonian]

I think he was rushed back too soon.....I think the same happened with Barry.

There was another game IIRC when McCarthy was pleading to be taken off but he was kept on and aggravated his injury.

The bottom line, IMO, is that we don't need both those boys in the team, or indeed one of them with Besic, when we are playing the lesser lights at home.

We had two defensive midfielders on against Stoke and Baggies, two teams which predictably had no intention of attacking much and who mustered about half a dozen shots on goal between them.

It is no coincidence that the only home game we have won recently was one where Barclay was played alongside a DM and was tasked to pick up the ball deep and surge forward to attack.

I think Kenwright could have played along side besic in the QPR game and we wpould hve won, i mean 3 deflected goals ffs, if that doesnt tell you we were always going to win then i dont know what would.

But yeah, a squad game means we shouldnt be relying on one or two players to be honest but this is where the likes of pienarr and Osman need a replacement now. One player could potentially cover both roles if we sign the right one ala Pienarr back when we signed him could. But time running out to find one for this season, next season might be too late.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

We have won one game since Burnley in october and that one win came against a team that hadnt picked a single point away from home. We lost so many home games in the period and considering the run essentially started on 1st November i wouldnt call it a blip.

and do you really think the likes of gibson / pienarr / Kone would have made a diference?

Only Mirallas missing for a long period of time is significant, even stones missing should have been managable with 3 other senior defenders to replace him.

What on earth are you jabbering on about Ashton?

Since Burnley away on the 26th we've beaten Lille, West Ham, Wolfsburg, QPR (you've finally got something right), and have been beaten a grand total of twice at home. The home games we've been beaten in where Stoke on Boxing Day and a dead rubber to Krasnador when we played a gang of kids. In this time we've played 4 of the top 7 seven times, including Man City the champions home and away.

In that period we've had significant injuries to Pienaar, Stones, McCarthy, Barry, Coleman, Jags, Mirallas, Osman, Howard, Distin, Gibson, Kone, Eto'o, Hibbert and Alcaraz.

If you want to try and manipulate the facts to suite your agenda make sure you know the facts in the beginning.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Oh I do see the real picture of what is going on. And it is not pleasant viewing. I see a team that doesn't work on defending for example.

By that I mean we would have to be marooned in the bottom 3 for Bill to fire him, sorry that wasn't clearer.

Of course we work on defending that's just nonsense, what do you think they do all week? Play 5 a side and have shooting practice?

 

[Dithering Dougie]

the problem isn't its a bad patch , we haven't had a good one all season, injury's have played a part but every single club could say the same.
we have not been unlucky didn't deserve to get anything more than we have done out of most of these games lack of spirit . direction and an inability to take charge when things are not going are way ,are what we have seen this season, and like the fella or not and i do ,he has to take some of the blame.
He was always going to get a blip at some stage due to the age of the squad/ dead wood and the size of it with Europe thrown into it , not a problem now we are out of the cups, and you have to question the players as well , are one or two undermining him, oh under Moyes this that and the other, i know davek gets stick over this but i think he has a piont
Like i said i hope he learns from it and is a bit more ruthless and ships out a few and puts his mark on the club.
my biggest worry is the lack of fight bottle call it what you like shown up to now by this squad, if they go a few games further on and get sucked into a scrap would you back them, up to now i have seen nothing to say they would instill any faith in coming out on top

We're a team suffering from a lack of confidence, this happens to all clubs at one point during the season. Some teams take longer than others to recover. I'm not absolving Martinez from any blame here, we started badly before a ball was kicked with a poorly organised pre season and that's clearly his responsibility alone, the result of which was 2 draws in the first 2 games when we ran out of steam after being in the lead twice and should have closed the games out. So instead of starting the season on a high with 6 points from the first 3 games, we were sat on 2 from 9 and looking shell shocked after taking a battering from the champions elect.

We then went on a decent enough run until the middle of December considering our heavy workload and the fact we've had important players dropping like flies ever five minutes. Again all this while looking a shadow of our former selves fitness wise and devoid of spirit and confidence. If you look at the results we had an awful run from mid December to the 1st of January, culminating in our worst perfomance under Martinez away to Hull. Since then we've picked up again and are unbeaten. We've had a tough time but we're coming out the other side and we're also getting more and more players back from injury. It's not been easy this season but we've been through the worst of it and hopefully now after this self enforced break we can kick on and push up the table.

 

[Christiffa25]

We're a team suffering from a lack of confidence, this happens to all clubs at one point during the season. Some teams take longer than others to recover. I'm not absolving Martinez from any blame here, we started badly before a ball was kicked with a poorly organised pre season and that's clearly his responsibility alone, the result of which was 2 draws in the first 2 games when we ran out of steam after being in the lead twice and should have closed the games out. So instead of starting the season on a high with 6 points from the first 3 games, we were sat on 2 from 9 and looking shell shocked after taking a battering from the champions elect.

We then went on a decent enough run until the middle of December considering our heavy workload and the fact we've had important players dropping like flies ever five minutes. Again all this while looking a shadow of our former selves fitness wise and devoid of spirit and confidence. If you look at the results we had an awful run from mid December to the 1st of January, culminating in our worst perfomance under Martinez away to Hull. Since then we've picked up again and are unbeaten. We've had a tough time but we're coming out the other side and we're also getting more and more players back from injury. It's not been easy this season but we've been through the worst of it and hopefully now after this self enforced break we can kick on and push up the table.

I love your optimism but I think the damage is done and irreparable without major change from a manager who refuses change.

Moyes had bad starts to seasons but you always new they were all singing off the same Hyme sheet and working hard and results would pick up....

I struggle seeing that currently with Roberto. He looks a man seriously under pressure

 

[Jags..class]

Massive fan of Martinez but he got to put the club before his own philosophy.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I love your optimism but I think the damage is done and irreparable without major change from a manager who refuses change.

Moyes had bad starts to seasons but you always new they were all singing off the same Hyme sheet and working hard and results would pick up....

I struggle seeing that currently with Roberto. He looks a man seriously under pressure

We went into the Southampton game on the 20th December 5 points of 5th, and came out of our awful run against Hull 13 points from it. In that 4 game spell we lost a lot of ground and the games were coming thick and fast as they do at that time of the year, but you'd really want us to sack a manager based on that? We're not Spurs for gods sake.

 

[chicoazul]

I love @davek.

 

[1966efc]

I love @davek.

That's me told then.

Pfft.

 

[Elong]

I love your optimism but I think the damage is done and irreparable without major change from a manager who refuses change.

Moyes had bad starts to seasons but you always new they were all singing off the same Hyme sheet and working hard and results would pick up....

I struggle seeing that currently with Roberto. He looks a man seriously under pressure

That's because he had 10 years to consistently under perform until February, he had the form behind him. Roberto hasn't had that time. I mean, seriously, do you have posters of Moyes all around your bedroom ffs?

 

[Christiffa25]

We went into the Southampton game on the 20th December 5 points of 5th, and came out of our awful run against Hull 13 points from it. In that 4 game spell we lost a lot of ground and the games were coming thick and fast as they do at that time of the year, but you'd really want us to sack a manager based on that? We're not Spurs for gods sake.

Ideally No I wouldnt. The problem is do you think it's a case of everything was rose at the start of the season, then we'v just had a bad 6 weeks? Maybe been unlucky with results and injuries? But it's bound to turn soon?

I don't see it like that. Everything has been wrong since the very start of this season. He clearly changed the tactics from last season, pre season was Amiture!! Players were not even fit at the start of the season and apart from a couple of European games, I don't recall any performances better than average.

There's talk left right and center of dressing room unrest. Which even in bad runs of the past, nothing like that has ever been mooted. He's interviews are becoming alarmingly funny and bizarre. And the Kevin Mirallas penalty episode imo is part of a bigger problem.

Even if we stick with him and he changed nothing about his tactics I do still feel we ARE too good to go down so....in a way I hope we do keep him. Firstly I'd love nothing more than him to adapt and turn it round because I like Bobby I really do. If NOT then he has to go come may.

 

[Christiffa25]

That's because he had 10 years to consistently under perform until February, he had the form behind him. Roberto hasn't had that time. I mean, seriously, do you have posters of Moyes all around your bedroom ffs?

Haha....he's a BETTER manager than Martinez! Jesus if he'd had the money and players martinez has had we'd be a stronger proposistion than we are now.

 

[Elong]

Haha....he's a BETTER manager than Martinez! Jesus if he'd had the money and players martinez has had we'd be a stronger proposistion than we are now.

Martinez won a cup without either of the above, Moyes has never won a trophy. Game, set, match.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Ideally No I wouldnt. The problem is do you think it's a case of everything was rose at the start of the season, then we'v just had a bad 6 weeks? Maybe been unlucky with results and injuries? But it's bound to turn soon?

I don't see it like that. Everything has been wrong since the very start of this season. He clearly changed the tactics from last season, pre season was Amiture!! Players were not even fit at the start of the season and apart from a couple of European games, I don't recall any performances better than average.

There's talk left right and center of dressing room unrest. Which even in bad runs of the past, nothing like that has ever been mooted. He's interviews are becoming alarmingly funny and bizarre. And the Kevin Mirallas penalty episode imo is part of a bigger problem.

Even if we stick with him and he changed nothing about his tactics I do still feel we ARE too good to go down so....in a way I hope we do keep him. Firstly I'd love nothing more than him to adapt and turn it round because I like Bobby I really do. If NOT then he has to go come may.

How can you on the one hand say he refuses to change, then on the other say he's clearly changed tactics from last season?

It's widely acknowledged that pre season was a shambles, but even so and given our increased games with Europe up until that bad spell we we're certainly in the running for a top 6 finish.

Also you've clearly forgotten or ignoring the early years of Moyes when it's widely accepted that the players (Ferguson, Weir, Stubbs, Graverson..) had turned on Moyes and as soon as safety was reached took their foot of the pedal and tried to get him sacked, culminating in a last day embarrsing debacle against Man City that almost cost him his job. Or the likes of AVDM who's took the piss for years.