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Roberto Martinez discussion

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When, he played 1 yesterday what naismith didnt control and one against i think arsenal, apart from that hes give it away so much
He also played a couple of ones from inside his half both to Naismith again against the Scottish teams. One were Naismith was hacked down and should have seen red and the other I think Naismith missed.

That's almost one a game when playing deeper. That's about as much you can ask for. It's not his fault the players aren't putting them away.

He also made a few good passes from deep to the wing which put us on the counter attack. Barkley's long passing is probably as good as anyone on the team except perhaps Gibson. It's his short passing that needs a lot of work.
 
Fact of the matter is Kone at the time was a sensible buy.
Did well the year before. Could buy into his ideas.

Then Rom came along and we are truly spoilt with him (to think he gets criticised as well).

Its unfortunate the injury seems to have ruined him; think its harsh to levy too much blame on Bobby.
 
I'm sure we were playing 4-1-4-1 yesterday with McCarthy being the holding DM and Naismith the lone striker. IMO neither of then are suited for those respective roles. It didn't work yesterday as Villareal really gained the upper hand when we used this formation and seemed to break thrugh the midfield four effortlessly.
4-1-4-1 is too offensive. A good passing team will easily pass that first block of 4 and then they're on to the back 5.
 

Agreed I think it would work if we had hard working wingers. If Lennon came in I think him with Mirallas/Deulofeu would be alright. The United model had one of Berbatov or Ronaldo not really doing much work. I don't think we have a player good enough to carry without everyone working defensively.

If Roberto can get Deulofeu and Mirallas tracking back and a midfield that can supply them ammunition then it would work.
Which as a man manager is exactly what he needs to do. No wonder Enrique wasn't impressed with Deulofeu when he came back.
 
I dont think pragmatism and Martinez go together, tbh. I admire that for the most part. It's also a necessity for him to stick playing a certain system come what may because his whole pitch to the players he manages is that you dont stop trying to play and look for the easy way out when under pressure - which can lead to a lot of mistakes - but for him, if he failed to tolerate those mistakes, the jig would be up in terms of the control he has over his players. What would they do if they saw a manger espousing the credo of passing and finding space and retaining the ball suddenly order a more direct approach? If it were me I'd find it difficult taking him seriously again. So even if the personnel aren't in place we're going to get a brand of football that we've had for the last two seasons: building from the back and getting ourselves up the pitch in numbers to make things try and happen. The question is whether that would look like the first season or second - and that depends on the tempo we'd play at. Working the ball sideways can be fruitful but only if the pace of the pass and sharpness of players' movement to be there for it are a feature of our play; if not, it'll look like last season and we'll trouble not too many teams.

New personnel matters then, but so too does energy levels. We'll need them both to make an impact this season. If we dont get them in sufficient measure we'll still be more than ok, but it'll be more of the grind of season two.


I think we need to re-evaluate what we mean by pragmatism. Often the pragmatic debate basically comes back to whether we change tactics or not. I admire Martinez for having a philosophy. I also think training a club to play a philosophy, whatever it is, from top to bottom is a fantastic idea. This is what Ajax, Manchester United, Barcalona all do. It's a bonus that we have a pass and move tactic and I agree entirely there is no point moving from that.

However when I mean be pragmatic I suppose I mean occasionally Martinez needs to drop the ultra-optimism a bit. Nothing to do with tactics, more personnel I would say. He clearly has a lot of time for particular players but I do think they will need to be fazed out and some interim replacements before the youngsters are ready could come in. I'm not just talking the easy targets here (Kone) but particularly Osman and Peinaar should be considered moving at least one on.

We probably don't have the money to replace them. However if Stones were to be sold, I would be disappointed if we didn't move for a Kagawa type player. Seeing Rooney yesterday showed what we were missing. We desperately need someone in his mould to play between the lines. Powell can be that player, but it will be 2-3 years yet before that happens.

I happen to think Barkley, McCarthy and Stones (if he stays) will have big seasons for us next season. He has given them a lot of responsibility and they will step up.
 

Fact of the matter is Kone at the time was a sensible buy.
Did well the year before. Could buy into his ideas.

Then Rom came along and we are truly spoilt with him (to think he gets criticised as well).

Its unfortunate the injury seems to have ruined him; think its harsh to levy too much blame on Bobby.

He looked pretty ruined in the Stevenage game prior to his injury to be fair. A truly horrific performance.
 

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