Roberto Martinez discussion

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Still said:
I'm quite interested by the winger situation. It isn't just here, it's right across the premier league; managers really don't seem to trust them.

A huge part of any wingers game is to have a decent defensive relationship with his fullback, and it works vice versa when attacking on the overlap. Yet as 4.2.3.1 has taken over, and the game has got more defensive it seems as though the trust has gone in 'widemen' to be able to muck in. As so we see Besic and Cleverley, or as yesterday Naismith and Kone ahead of the fullbacks. Liverpool had Ings wide left yesterday.

And this is where I don't really get it. Strikers are terrible defenders, for good reason; I'd much rather have them working on the finishing in training, than worrying about tracking marauding fullbacks. Kone completely lost Azpilacueta yesterday, for instance.

Yet deploying a striker out there seems to be seen as the safer option than any of our wingers, who are surely more adept in that position, and have the added role of occupying the fullbacks mind. (There is no way Ivanovich would have been pushing as high up the pitch if he had someone with pace like Del or Lennon ready to counter past him.)

I just haven't seen any evidence that our wide players aren't capable of performing both functions. If it turns out they can't, then that's what they have to be concentrating on in training themselves, rather than being stuck on the bench game after game with the tag 'flair player' working against their best interests.
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For us it's more a case of squeezing in people that can play with their back to goal. Neither of our first choice central attacking players are great at it, so we have to sacrifice the wide positions to get Cleverley/Naismith/Kone on the pitch. Nothing wrong with it for me: if that's what you have to do to have a balanced side then that's what you do.
 
Stanley Parker said:
Thank you for this reasoned reply! But I couldn't see any fans around me who welcomed the line-up with three defensive midfielders.

This might have been warranted against the Champions of last season, but Chelsea won't be the Champions of this season.
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As I said, football is all about opinions.

We played them very early doors last season so we wouldn't at that point of known they'd be champions and would start off so much better than this season. Irrespective of what formation the manager starts or doesn't start with there will be some who agree and some who don't and that's why there's a forum I guess. I personally wish people would give the manager a bit more slack rather than criticising almost everything he does. I get back from the match and look into the match day thread and every week it's the same old, same old....people criticising a change, a tactical formation or whatever and then later in the thread invariably looking a bit of a plum when the said dastardly deed bears some fruit. Not always I grant you, but far too often in my opinion.
Top and bottom of it though is that we played extremely well yesterday and the tactics whether from the first minute off the ninth minute were spot on....I'm sure we'll all agree on that.
 
Brownie said:
For us it's more a case of squeezing in people that can play with their back to goal. Neither of our first choice central attacking players are great at it, so we have to sacrifice the wide positions to get Cleverley/Naismith/Kone on the pitch. Nothing wrong with it for me: if that's what you have to do to have a balanced side then that's what you do.
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Wingers tho Browns.
 
Stanley Parker said:
It was a great win! But some fans have claimed that Martinez outwitted Mourinho tactically. Can they explain exactly how our plan was intended to work? And how it actually worked on the day?

How did we negate the threat of Pedro and Hazard? How did we create chances in front of goal? The play wasn't all one way. Chelsea had 61% possession and won 14 corners.
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And they scored zero or made the keeper make zero saves from those 14 corners because tactically our defensive strategy was very good....Kone was like a third centre half.
Yes, Chelsea had 61% possession.....when we have that much and lose people moan like hell on here about it, but now we're using it as a stick to beat us with, and to hail Mourhinio as a master tactician.

Tactics are like statistics.....you can make the same set say something completely different.
 

Lowste said:
I think the game plan was to keep it tight and subdue which on paper is a very attacking team, and also make sure we don't make the mistakes of last year.
Besic started off more in an attacking role and was very prominent in the initial stages, so don't think he was a cautious inclusion. In bringing Naismith on I think he went for the same game plan but with a slight more attacking edge.
So no to the cautious approach and no to the fortunate substitution
All in all tactics that worked and need to be appreciated
I think trying to find fault reinforces you dislike for the man - just enjoy the moment as there will be times he gets it completely wrong
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I am enjoying the moment! It was a big win which I hope will give us confidence as the season continues.

I am a great admirer of Roberto too. I just suspect that our play yesterday was more the result of an unfortunate injury and a fortunate substitution rather than a tactical masterplan conceived by Roberto.

Roll on October - Everton v Liverpool, Everton v Man United and Arsenal v Everton - when our opponents will have the complication of midweek European games too.
 
evertony said:
And they scored zero or made the keeper make zero saves from those 14 corners because tactically our defensive strategy was very good....Kone was like a third centre half.
Yes, Chelsea had 61% possession.....when we have that much and lose people moan like hell on here about it, but now we're using it as a stick to beat us with, and to hail Mourhinio as a master tactician.

Tactics are like statistics.....you can make the same set say something completely different.
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Chelsea are a big team and dangerous at corners - and they won 14. As I said before, Kone wasn't there by chance!

But, as usual, we were caught out more than once by short corners. It's something that needs attention.
 
evertony said:
And they scored zero or made the keeper make zero saves from those 14 corners because tactically our defensive strategy was very good....Kone was like a third centre half.
Yes, Chelsea had 61% possession.....when we have that much and lose people moan like hell on here about it, but now we're using it as a stick to beat us with, and to hail Mourhinio as a master tactician.

Tactics are like statistics.....you can make the same set say something completely different.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more on the pocession, we battered teams last season only to be beaten, this year we need to make pocession count. I don't want us to become a team who don't play football but I prefer the statistics of 3-1 to 61%.
 
Brownie said:
For us it's more a case of squeezing in people that can play with their back to goal. Neither of our first choice central attacking players are great at it, so we have to sacrifice the wide positions to get Cleverley/Naismith/Kone on the pitch. Nothing wrong with it for me: if that's what you have to do to have a balanced side then that's what you do.
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But Kone has good control and can play with his back to goal.

That's exactly why he and Lukaku make such a good pair.
 

evertony said:
And they scored zero or made the keeper make zero saves from those 14 corners because tactically our defensive strategy was very good....Kone was like a third centre half.
Yes, Chelsea had 61% possession.....when we have that much and lose people moan like hell on here about it, but now we're using it as a stick to beat us with, and to hail Mourhinio as a master tactician.

Tactics are like statistics.....you can make the same set say something completely different.
Click to expand...

Didn't we have 63% possession when Chelsea thumped us 6-3 last season?
 
Stanley Parker said:
But Kone has good control and can play with his back to goal.

That's exactly why he and Lukaku make such a good pair.
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And thatll be the same Kone whom many said was dire and mocked Martinez for signing him for a paltry £6M and because he was from Wigan. My only gripe with fellow Blues is that they are way too quick to judge.....a little bit more patience from the support would be a huge positive for me.
 

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