Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

I'm used to his talk about injuries and along with his mildly annoying way of finding gold when we've plainly been poor, just file it under management bull and pretty much ignore it.

If he says someone's close it generally means they're not. Very close means they have a chance but don't bet on it.

Coleman in particular I have an uneasy feeling about. Bringing back Kenny and handing this ex-Milan RB a trial has alarm bells ringing.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Coleman in particular I have an uneasy feeling about. Bringing back Kenny and handing this ex-Milan RB a trial has alarm bells ringing.

Yea, Jonjoe being recalled ( was it early or was it just not extended ? ) was a bit odd. Mind you Dyson came back a few weeks ago so maybe it doesn't mean that much ? We'll know soon enough.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I'm made up with the turn around on Monday and Martinez has been on the ball with his game changing substitutions. The one nag in my mind though is why are we putting out teams to start matches that are going goals down to the likes of Watford, Barnsley Reading and West Brom. Out of all the games we've played so far you can only really say Chelsea and Southampton we were at it from the off and even then it was an enforced sub in the Chelsea game that made the difference. The usual suspects will say I'm having a pop but I think it's something Martinez has always done, the difference in the 3 seasons being that 13/14 and this one he has the options off the bench to win games whereas in his second season he didn't. I just worry why when we have trained all week in a certain way in s certain tactic so many times it seems to be ineffective and we just throw on all our attacking players to go for the win in an almost haphazard way once we're one or two down. Thrilling and entertaining no question but can it lead to consistency? Hopefully this season it will. Maybe Martinez is just cleverer than everyone though and deliberately looks to win games in this manner. As long as it continues to work I don't mind. Don't fancy going 2 down on Subday though before we change and start playing.

 

[jinkyali]

Just re-watched the game, I'd had more than a few on Monday!
One thing that stood out is I think the manager played an absolute blinder.

When West Brom changed to just one up front he knew exactly what to do.
People have said McCarthy was playing right back after the switch and that's true, but only when the ball was in our half.
When we were in their half McCarthy was tucked in, in a midfield 3 with Gibson and Barry.

When you check the advanced position of Galloway on the left, pretty much level with Del it means we were playing something like a 2-3-4-1 when we were attacking.
This gave us all sorts of interesting passing options and meant we could still find pockets of space against a bank of 4 and a bank of 5.
You can go 2 at the back because Berahino is now the only player ahead of the play and you'd trust Jags and Mori to take care of him.

Look how central McCarthy is here trying to find space between their defence and midfield.
As attacking as Coleman can be you'd never see him in this sort of space meaning McCarthy was no right back, at least when we had the ball.

There's a cool bit of play that started about 81:15 on the game clock.
The ball breaks to one of their players on the centre-left about 30 yards out in their half and McCarthy is in his midfield position.
Normally with a right back behind him McCarthy would pressure the ball as he's the nearest player.
It turns out he can't though and has to drop back to go with a WBA runner.
This gives their player on the ball about 25 yards of space to advance in to until Gibson could get across to cover McCarthy's midfield position.
It's interesting because you get to witness the change from our attacking formation (McCarthy in midfield) to our defensive formation (McCarthy at right back) in real time.

None of this feels like some in-game reaction to me, it feels like preparation.
Within 2 minutes of them taking Rondon off and going 4-5-1 our subs were warming up.
Within 3 minutes they were on the field.
Then within less than 15 minutes of that we'd scored 2 against a packed defence.
Roberto was a man with a plan here I think, and it worked ... perfectly.

Take a bow Bob.

Video isnt working mate??!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I think Martinez is a complete genuis with his subs when he makes some and we win, but a total clown whne he makes some and we lose.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Lanolin]

I think Martinez is a complete genuis with his subs when he makes some and we win, but a total clown whne he makes some and we lose.

It's as simple as that.

Exactly the point I was trying to make about the McCarthy/right back scenario. All very well saying it was a master stroke but apparently we let one of their players have 25 yards of space to run in to. That goes wrong and suddenly he's tactically inept.

 

[Stanley Parker]

I just worry why when we have trained all week in a certain way in s certain tactic so many times it seems to be ineffective and we just throw on all our attacking players to go for the win in an almost haphazard way once we're one or two down.

So you don't think it's Plan B?

 

[toffeejack]

Just re-watched the game, I'd had more than a few on Monday!
One thing that stood out is I think the manager played an absolute blinder.

When West Brom changed to just one up front he knew exactly what to do.
People have said McCarthy was playing right back after the switch and that's true, but only when the ball was in our half.
When we were in their half McCarthy was tucked in, in a midfield 3 with Gibson and Barry.

When you check the advanced position of Galloway on the left, pretty much level with Del it means we were playing something like a 2-3-4-1 when we were attacking.
This gave us all sorts of interesting passing options and meant we could still find pockets of space against a bank of 4 and a bank of 5.
You can go 2 at the back because Berahino is now the only player ahead of the play and you'd trust Jags and Mori to take care of him.

Look how central McCarthy is here trying to find space between their defence and midfield.
As attacking as Coleman can be you'd never see him in this sort of space meaning McCarthy was no right back, at least when we had the ball.

There's a cool bit of play that started about 81:15 on the game clock.
The ball breaks to one of their players on the centre-left about 30 yards out in their half and McCarthy is in his midfield position.
Normally with a right back behind him McCarthy would pressure the ball as he's the nearest player.
It turns out he can't though and has to drop back to go with a WBA runner.
This gives their player on the ball about 25 yards of space to advance in to until Gibson could get across to cover McCarthy's midfield position.
It's interesting because you get to witness the change from our attacking formation (McCarthy in midfield) to our defensive formation (McCarthy at right back) in real time.

None of this feels like some in-game reaction to me, it feels like preparation.
Within 2 minutes of them taking Rondon off and going 4-5-1 our subs were warming up.
Within 3 minutes they were on the field.
Then within less than 15 minutes of that we'd scored 2 against a packed defence.
Roberto was a man with a plan here I think, and it worked ... perfectly.

Take a bow Bob.

literally better analysis than anything BT have rustled up in the couple of years of covering footy. Then again, i'm comparing you to owen and redknapp which is doing you a bit of disservice.

 

[catcherintherye]

Coleman in particular I have an uneasy feeling about. Bringing back Kenny and handing this ex-Milan RB a trial has alarm bells ringing.

I worry that there might be a longer term issue with his hamstring. Especially given that he went off very quickly without it having actually gone. I hope not. I think the more interesting thing is, does Martinez fancy Browning?

 

[toffeejack]

I think Martinez is a complete genuis with his subs when he makes some and we win, but a total clown whne he makes some and we lose.

It's as simple as that.

i don't think he's ever made subs that have lost a game - more team selections at the start of games - but i love him so i just blame the players when we lose.

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Coleman in particular I have an uneasy feeling about. Bringing back Kenny and handing this ex-Milan RB a trial has alarm bells ringing.

Yea, Jonjoe being recalled ( was it early or was it just not extended ? ) was a bit odd. Mind you Dyson came back a few weeks ago so maybe it doesn't mean that much ? We'll know soon enough.

League One might've been too easy for him. Maybe he should be playing in the Championship.

 

[LAToffee]

I'm made up with the turn around on Monday and Martinez has been on the ball with his game changing substitutions. The one nag in my mind though is why are we putting out teams to start matches that are going goals down to the likes of Watford, Barnsley Reading and West Brom. Out of all the games we've played so far you can only really say Chelsea and Southampton we were at it from the off and even then it was an enforced sub in the Chelsea game that made the difference. The usual suspects will say I'm having a pop but I think it's something Martinez has always done, the difference in the 3 seasons being that 13/14 and this one he has the options off the bench to win games whereas in his second season he didn't. I just worry why when we have trained all week in a certain way in s certain tactic so many times it seems to be ineffective and we just throw on all our attacking players to go for the win in an almost haphazard way once we're one or two down. Thrilling and entertaining no question but can it lead to consistency? Hopefully this season it will. Maybe Martinez is just cleverer than everyone though and deliberately looks to win games in this manner. As long as it continues to work I don't mind. Don't fancy going 2 down on Subday though before we change and start playing.

Nope because the crowd will turn and the team will lose its nerve in a way they wouldn't with other teams. Facts are that their dominance is 95% history and mental. We get an early game, we'll win.

 

[Carlito]

He's put together a team that's as good as any when it comes to threatening on the break.

The challenge now is to develop a way of opening up deep banks of four. As things are, they tend to run out of ideas pretty quickly if the opposition stays disciplined and doesn't leave space in behind.

Could explain why we're seeing more of Kone. He's got a bit of nous about him when it comes to pulling defenders out of position, which the others don't really have.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I'm made up with the turn around on Monday and Martinez has been on the ball with his game changing substitutions. The one nag in my mind though is why are we putting out teams to start matches that are going goals down to the likes of Watford, Barnsley Reading and West Brom. Out of all the games we've played so far you can only really say Chelsea and Southampton we were at it from the off and even then it was an enforced sub in the Chelsea game that made the difference. The usual suspects will say I'm having a pop but I think it's something Martinez has always done, the difference in the 3 seasons being that 13/14 and this one he has the options off the bench to win games whereas in his second season he didn't. I just worry why when we have trained all week in a certain way in s certain tactic so many times it seems to be ineffective and we just throw on all our attacking players to go for the win in an almost haphazard way once we're one or two down. Thrilling and entertaining no question but can it lead to consistency? Hopefully this season it will. Maybe Martinez is just cleverer than everyone though and deliberately looks to win games in this manner. As long as it continues to work I don't mind. Don't fancy going 2 down on Subday though before we change and start playing.

Is a fair point, but you could counter and say his tactics are to start the game nice and compact, retain the ball and get the opposition chasing us. Then we have the flair/pace to come off the bench and play against tired legs. If we have the players on the bench then there is no harm in tailoring a game plan to suit them coming on. I agree we need to stop conceding in the first place though.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Is a fair point, but you could counter and say his tactics are to start the game nice and compact, retain the ball and get the opposition chasing us. Then we have the flair/pace to come off the bench and play against tired legs. If we have the players on the bench then there is no harm in tailoring a game plan to suit them coming on. I agree we need to stop conceding in the first place though.

unfortunately there will probably always be goals in a young makeshift back four, but they will improve with experience and we will get some of the more established names back to solidify things at the back.