Romelu Lukaku

[Tubey]

For the reasons you've stated about his all round game, I doubt many people would, hand on heart, say he's world class.

Mind you, he's slowly improving his all round game so you never know.

Given he'll probably score 20 goals or so this season I guess the question is, which would you rather have, a Rom goal scoring machine or someone who's got a better all round game but might only score a dozen or so goals a season ?

Personally I'd stick with Rom and find a player, or players to complement what he does.

The other guy.

Because what happens right now, as we saw yesterday, is that when Rom doesn't score, he's in effect useless.

A better all round striker brings the whole team further up the field and innovates the entire attack. Goals come from different angles. Right now, we're easily nullified and seem to only score and win when Lukaku gets something out of nothing, and you can't coherently strategise for a run of games on the spin with a plan of no more than simply crossing your fingers and hoping Lukaku turns up.

You know what would be more ideal though? Lukaku and a striker who can do the legwork - a second striker to link things up whilst Lukaku hangs on the line. If that means dropping Barkley, so be it, because Barkley would work better with an all round striker who can get him further up the pitch and attack from deep.

But what I do know for certain is that having Lukaku the way we do now simply does not work with Barkley behind him. Neither player is actually to blame; it's the system.

 

[Goat]

The other guy.

Because what happens right now, as we saw yesterday, is that when Rom doesn't score, he's in effect useless.

A better all round striker brings the whole team further up the field and innovates the entire attack. Goals come from different angles. Right now, we're easily nullified and seem to only score and win when Lukaku gets something out of nothing, and you can't coherent strategise for a run of games on the spin with a plan of no more than simply crossing your fingers and hoping Lukaku turns up.

You know what would be more ideal though? Lukaku and a striker who can do the legwork - a second striker to link things up whilst Lukaku hangs on the line. If that means dropping Barkley, so be it, because Barkley would work better with an all round striker who can get him further up the pitch and attack from deep.

But what I do know for certain is that having Lukaku the way we do now simply does not work with Barkley behind him. Neither player is actually to blame; it's the system.

Wrong, see above, Ross Barkley is the problem.

 

[Tubey]

Wrong, see above, Ross Barkley is the problem.

I've just said that. Barkley doesn't work with Lukaku, but Lukaku is the reason for that, and vice versa.

So it's either:

1 - Lukaku with a second striker or a mobile playmaker in the Silva mould.

or

2 - Barkley with a striker who can hold up the ball and bring attacking players around him into goalscoring positions (because Barkley is a strong runner from deep into attacking areas if he's given the licence to get beyond the striker, which he doesn't currently have).

But instead, we've got:

3 - A striker who ambles around the pitch moaning and doing nothing for 90 minutes, and an attacking mid who is lost in no man's land, trying to link up play 20 yards further back than he should be.

 

[Woolly Blue]

You know what would be more ideal though? Lukaku and a striker who can do the legwork - a second striker to link things up whilst Lukaku hangs on the line

I think that's the right answer too, or at least something similar ....

Personally I'd stick with Rom and find a player, or players to complement what he does.

 

[Tubey]

I think that's the right answer too, or at least something similar ....

Completely agreed.

That's why I can't say that Lukaku is a world class "forward", because he's not - he's a world class "goalscorer". We need someone alongside him so we can focus exclusively on what he's exceptional at, so as to not worry about him negatively impacting a game with his glaring weaknesses.

And that's why that transfer window was an abortion.

 

[Tony Hibbert's 3rd leg]

When Strikers aren't on there game, they need the support of the midfield. When a connection with another player works it really does work, and Rom hasn't had that connection with anybody. The only glimmers were that spell last year where Deulofeu could thread a ball through the eye of the needle.

I think Rom will be gone before we find him the ideal partnership though.

 

[Tubey]

When Strikers aren't on there game, they need the support of the midfield. When a connection with another player works it really does work, and Rom hasn't had that connection with anybody. The only glimmers were that spell last year where Deulofeu could thread a ball through the eye of the needle.

I think Rom will be gone before we find him the ideal partnership though.

But it works the other way - when the midfield can't get up the pitch in dangerous areas, they need the support of the striker to make the ball stick.

It's all about balance, and Lukaku throws the entire front line off because he simply cannot do what our system needs him to do for us to be consistent. Again, I'm not even blaming Lukaku for it - it's like Jagielka being asked to play in goal; if he fumbles a shot, you can't really blame him as he isn't a goalkeeper. So when we're pinging passes on to Lukaku's shins and having attack after attack break down, I blame the strategy, not the player (although he doesn't help himself with his body language, at all).

So we come back again to that transfer window. To not bring in another striker or playmaker was suicidal, and we didn't need to see two months of football to identify it as such - all of us knew we'd screwed it up big style.

 

[Prevenger17]

Rom is the problem. His ability to score goals is obscuring the fact that he has all the control of a forest fire

 

[Mickey]

Said it before, I'd have taken the boy Chadli ahead of Yala and played him as a second striker with Rom let him be the one to get the ball to feet and bring others in and let Rom slot.

 

[Tubey]

Rom is the problem. His ability to score goals is obscuring the fact that he has all the control of a forest fire

The weird thing is, like in the City game, if we're set up to counter attack and Lukaku's only role is to sniff out chances and hope for the best, then he legitimately is one of the very best in the world at it. That's why he was so incredible for West Brom and for us early in Martinez's reign; he was, and is, a counter-attacking monster. If a top side wanted to set up a team to counter at pace every week, he's worth £70m of anyones money, because in my view he's the very best striker in the world at it.

But the thing is - Lukaku is at his worst when we're actually on top in a game and he's asked to actually be a part of a wider attacking unit! So in a 'successful' side, he's more often than not the absolute definition of a liability.

I think you posted something earlier which nailed it (although obviously I'm aware you're 'wumming' right now, but still) - other strikers love winning, whereas Lukaku just loves scoring goals. He has little interest whatsoever in being part of an organised, clever attacking unit - all he cares about is the ball going to his feet and he's got a shot on goal.

 

[kenada_blue]

I've just said that. Barkley doesn't work with Lukaku, but Lukaku is the reason for that, and vice versa.

So it's either:

1 - Lukaku with a second striker or a mobile playmaker in the Silva mould.

or

2 - Barkley with a striker who can hold up the ball and bring attacking players around him into goalscoring positions (because Barkley is a strong runner from deep into attacking areas if he's given the licence to get beyond the striker, which he doesn't currently have).

But instead, we've got:

3 - A striker who ambles around the pitch moaning and doing nothing for 90 minutes, and an attacking mid who is lost in no man's land, trying to link up play 20 yards further back than he should be.

Mentioned before...the time Rom was unplayable was when he had Kone (a striker) linking with him, Barkley playing off both of them, and Del pinging balls in and driving with pace.

Koeman doesn't play that. He wants us to win the ball, hit the pacy forward players. None of who are good to perform every week

 

[Mickey]

The weird thing is, like in the City game, if we're set up to counter attack and Lukaku's only role is to sniff out chances and hope for the best, then he legitimately is one of the very best in the world at it. That's why he was so incredible for West Brom and for us early in Martinez's reign; he was, and is, a counter-attacking monster. If a top side wanted to set up a team to counter at pace every week, he's worth £70m of anyones money, because in my view he's the very best striker in the world at it.

But the thing is - Lukaku is at his worst when we're actually on top in a game and he's asked to actually be a part of a wider attacking unit! So in a 'successful' side, he's more often than not the absolute definition of a liability.

I think you posted something earlier which nailed it (although obviously I'm aware you're 'wumming' right now, but still) - other strikers love winning, whereas Lukaku just loves scoring goals. He has little interest whatsoever in being part of an organised, clever attacking unit - all he cares about is the ball going to his feet and he's got a shot on goal.

If Yannick misses that goal yeasterday Rom hands in a transfer request after the match no question.

 

[Tony Hibbert's 3rd leg]

But it works the other way - when the midfield can't get up the pitch in dangerous areas, they need the support of the striker to make the ball stick.

It's all about balance, and Lukaku throws the entire front line off because he simply cannot do what our system needs him to do for us to be consistent. Again, I'm not even blaming Lukaku for it - it's like Jagielka being asked to play in goal; if he fumbles a shot, you can't really blame him as he isn't a goalkeeper. So when we're pinging passes on to Lukaku's shins and having attack after attack break down, I blame the strategy, not the player (although he doesn't help himself with his body language, at all).

So we come back again to that transfer window. To not bring in another striker or playmaker was suicidal, and we didn't need to see two months of football to identify it as such - all of us knew we'd screwed it up big style.

Starting to agree on some middle ground. Koeman's ideal system requires Rom to do things he isn't really comfortable doing, and that's a shortfall for us and Rom.

So at the minute we have a great goalscorer but who is out of sorts in the system, so we have a sort of compromise where we let Rom do his thing which can be beneficial, but other times it isn't. But like you said we have no other option but to play Rom because of our ineptitude to buy him a supplier or competition.

See Ross Barkley, who has struggled to adapt more than anyone. Off the ball work has never been his thing. But where his situation differs to Rom is that his quality isn't enough to warrant his place in the team, because we have other options.

Koeman has it sussed I believe. Rom agreed to another year probably because we are actively searching not for a replacement bit for a striker of Koeman's ilk.

 

[Tubey]

Mentioned before...the time Rom was unplayable was when he had Kone (a striker) linking with him, Barkley playing off both of them, and Del pinging balls in and driving with pace.

Koeman doesn't play that. He wants us to win the ball, hit the pacy forward players. None of who are good to perform every week

Correct. For that approach to work, you need a clever technician to start it all off with, with players running off his ability to reliably take it in his stride and distribute.

We have no such player - we just have a bunch of explosive luxury players on the wings and an attacking midfielder who has a lot of extraordinary assets to his game, but instant control and quick vision aren't two of them.

 

[Prevenger17]

The weird thing is, like in the City game, if we're set up to counter attack and Lukaku's only role is to sniff out chances and hope for the best, then he legitimately is one of the very best in the world at it. That's why he was so incredible for West Brom and for us early in Martinez's reign; he was, and is, a counter-attacking monster. If a top side wanted to set up a team to counter at pace every week, he's worth £70m of anyones money, because in my view he's the very best striker in the world at it.

But the thing is - Lukaku is at his worst when we're actually on top in a game and he's asked to actually be a part of a wider attacking unit! So in a 'successful' side, he's more often than not the absolute definition of a liability.

I think you posted something earlier which nailed it (although obviously I'm aware you're 'wumming' right now, but still) - other strikers love winning, whereas Lukaku just loves scoring goals. He has little interest whatsoever in being part of an organised, clever attacking unit - all he cares about is the ball going to his feet and he's got a shot on goal.

Tbh, while some of my statements are willfully over the top, the actual opinion I have of the lad is more or less in there. I don't think he's good for our team as a collective and I broadly agree with everything you're saying about him. His goals make it a difficult argument though, hard to get people to see past them into the hollow, sulky Belgian that's scoring them