Ronald Koeman discussion

[vagant59]

Saturdays are bloody great on here. game or not

 

[Ashtonian]

Is it possible that some fans are so hell bent on how bad we have been that they won't give our manager any room at all?

It is almost like they expect us to be challenging the rich clubs overnight. It is almost like it is just that easy to go from losing loads of games to suddenly beating everyone? Some results have been crap so far yeah, but we have also had performances where we are getting the job done. We are getting results in games we write off before a game is kicked.

And hell, if people think we are bad this season then it can't can't worse. Bringing in the managers players can only improve things, can only get better results. Bolasie alone has assisted more than our other wingers, Williams has been much better than jags, Gueye been outstanding , stek to be fair has done a good.job for a back up that we never signed the first choice to. Remember how cheap he was compared to some of the keepers people throw up in the transfer thread?

Point is, if people think we aren't any better with all the statistics and whatever else then it's because we have the same set of players doing it! We have improved because we have stopped throwing silly points away and it actually takes a performance from the other team to get a result. Bit by bit it will change and we can have a clearer view of what Koeman's team is like, but judging the man on a team largely filled with squad players that are quickly written off in the same breath is verging on some false entitlement for fans that have seen no success in 22 seasons now.

And a certain few spend far too much time playing their championship manager game rather than having some common sense in how the game really works.

 

[Amw79]

Good stuff, but its not just about being less risky, you could also put that down to having a better defensive midfield protecting our back 4. They'd be under a lot more pressure and make more mistakes if it wasn't for Gana breaking things up before it gets to them. That's where Koeman and el Bob really differ - el Bob wanted his deep midfield to join the attack whereas Koeman wants them to be, well, defensive midfielders...

Yeah, take your point. I think the midfielders provide a better cover, for sure. But those stats are specifically about mistakes. After Martinez's first season, when we got found out, lots of teams realised they could put the back four under pressure, and we'd try to pass our way out of trouble, and end up making mistakes.

I think Koeman has instructed a safety first approach, which is resulting in more long balls, but less mistakes and not giving as many gifts away.

 

[Lowste]

@Lowste please don't tell me what to do. Please don't call me childish.

It wasn't so long ago, that all you used to say to was that I wanted Everton to lose.

You brought the past up in this thread not me, I have just confirmed what I did say. I M not sure why you would bring this all up again, unless you just want to prove again RM wasn't the man for the job. My original post basically points out that you finish in the Prem were you deserve to finish. To push the point that we finished there due to other factors just shouts overriding dislike and discredit you want to carry heaping on RM. Let's just
also recap that the following two seasons poor finishes were positions we deserved to finish and were credit goes to RM in season 1 criticism is desrved for season 2 & . Bottom line you finish were you deserve doesn't matter what happens at other clubs.
Any other dirt you want to throw, please do...I won't but will happily confirm what I have said in the past

 

[ianefc]

You brought the past up in this thread not me, I have just confirmed what I did say. I M not sure why you would bring this all up again, unless you just want to prove again RM wasn't the man for the job. My original post basically points out that you finish in the Prem were you deserve to finish. To push the point that we finished there due to other factors just shouts overriding dislike and discredit you want to carry heaping on RM. Let's just
also recap that the following two seasons poor finishes were positions we deserved to finish and were credit goes to RM in season 1 criticism is desrved for season 2 & . Bottom line you finish were you deserve doesn't matter what happens at other clubs.
Any other dirt you want to throw, please do...I won't but will happily confirm what I have said in the past

Let's leave it there.

 

[Lowste]

I really think people have to realise just how much spending it will take to break the top 4.

Arsenal have the 4th highest wage bill for example.

Now we could sign 20 players tomorrow, put them all on 100k per week, and our wage bill would still be nowhere near Arsenal.

That's the size of the mountain. And that's before we even consider we are net spend in the transfer market, which would need to increase on an unprecedented scale.

Agree... Each time we get around 5th we should take it as progress, the key will be keeping us there and trying to kick on...a long road for me if honest and massive investment needed

 

[davek]

No one is arguing he should be sacked.

It's just you, constantly moaning about everything. Even positives, like new signings you view as a negative. After a win at Goodison your probably the only one walking out with a scowl.

Like I said in a previous thread, it's not good enough to just say, "I haven't called for him to be sacked yet."

Evertonians should be expected to actually "get behind" Koeman. You know, actually support him.

Anything less than that is very un Evertonian like and is probably why many find it difficult to take a once respected poster seriously.

I don't like him. He comes across like we are a nuisance that he has to endure until he gets his chance for a tilt at Barcelona or similar size club (fat chance of that like). He's nothing. And as a manager he's done nothing. His history pales into insignificance besides this club's. I find him to be an arrogant phony. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

As stated though, if he does a job here (and from what I've seen I really don't see how he gets it done) then that shuts me up and I fall into line and enjoy the success with everyone else.

 

[davek]

Yeah he should spend all day blowing smoke up their skirts and telling the world how phenomenal they are after yet another dire display of half arsed nothingness, as that worked well.

Oh wait...

Give it up ffs. You backed a complete donkey of a manager to the death, more fool you, get over it.

*sigh*

I understand you don't want to face up to the inadequacies of this manager. Never mind.

 

[davek]

No mate I am simply pulling you up yet again on you stating something as fact.

This time he has fell out with players at every club he's managed, when actually he hasn't.

How many clubs do I require you to list was your question, well answer is mate, when you categorically state every club he's fallen out with players, then I expect you to be able to list every club.

You couldn't therefore your statements a lie.

First line does it for me. You accept he crosses swords regularly with players. Job done.

Doesn't really matter if it's all his clubs or *just* four. He thrives on conflict and that is poison for the type of corp spirit required for building something lasting and worthwhile.

 

[Lowste]

I dunno mate, but he's the manager we have right now, so why not give him some support? X

I agree mate and personally I think everybody wants him to achieve. We have at the moment I believe the best manager that was available to us and we have a manager that will be backed financially by the board. The problem is there are certain people that just want to berate RM in every post so difficult to have sensible discussions.
The past is the past, but some love to revel in it. RK will be judged against what he does not what a previous manager done

 

[ianefc]

*sigh*

I understand you don't want to face up to the inadequacies of this manager. Never mind.

You're providing me with loads of vaulting material tonight.

 

[davek]

Looked at some defence stats for Koeman, and thought this was an interesting comparison. We know that Goals against is marginally better than last season, but for a couple of years we've had a serious issue with causing our own problems, and making defensive mistakes.

I think this may be what Koeman saw as the first thing to sort - getting the stupid errors out of our game.

Compare the defensive errors and errors leading to goals stats over last 3 1/2 years.

View attachment 33353 View attachment 33354

Now some of that has come from being less risky at the back, and taking less chances on the ball - hence the increase in long balls, which for me is not a tactic in terms of how we intend to attack, but more a consequence of ensuring we don't make the same stupid mistakes at the back and knowing when to clear your lines.

This is still a work in progress, but this change in the type of goal we concede, and not gifting teams goals, is definitely a positive and something to build on.

Lol. Total defensive errors 6 for the season so far!! Someone needs to give that computer a kick. There's about 6 per game as far as I can see. The defence is the shambles it was a year ago.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

*sigh*

I understand you don't want to face up to the inadequacies of this manager. Never mind.

You don't want to face up to the simple and straightforward fact that you got it hideously wrong with his predecessor

It wouldn't have mattered who followed him through the door, you'd have had the knives out irrespective.

You've spent the last few months criticising virtually every move he's made, your reasoning has become increasingly confused and contradictory as you've desperately searched for another reason to take a pop. It's as transparent as tissue paper and extremely boring as you grind out your tedious agenda across multiple threads.

 

[davek]

Where do you go from here mate, I mean you have laid bare your utter contempt and disregard for our current managers career and ,perhaps more importantly, his character. You have virtually declared a blood feud . How can any criticism you make now be taken seriously knowing as we do it is set in a spirit of such vitriolic hatred ? You have continually peddled half truths and exaggerated perceived failings to bolster your increasingly biased diatribe. Where is the balance?
Incidentally our mutually preferred managerial appointment, Lucien Favre, has achieved far less than Koeman. How would we have defended that at this stage in the season I wonder ?

As said above, results and success cut right through that. He's not my cup of tea but so what. Win cups and/or get CL football and my ramblings amount to the square root of f.a..

Over to him.

 

[davek]

You're providing me with loads of vaulting material tonight.

I hope so. It'll mean Im utterly wrong and we've been successful under him. Can't wait to be vaulted on that.