Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

City were top of the table when we played them at their spot and many pundits were predicting they'd walk the league at that point, but don't let facts get in the way of your latest nonsense angle of attack Dave.

More the case that we were pinned back by them for 90 minutes and offered no fight that day and Koeman settled on an explanation that enormously inflated City's prowess.

 

[davek]

Annoying when managers use bizarre hyperbole, isn't it?

It is.

What's sauce for the goose though, eh?

 

[Mountfield1985]

It is.

What's sauce for the goose though, eh?

In all seriousness, City looked the real deal that day. I left the ground saying i've never seen a team keep the ball off us so well. Which is probably what Koeman was getting at. I understand you might not have enjoyed his tactics at The Etihad, but he's learned, gone for a different system, and smashed them 4-0 the next time out. So I don't understand what your issue is.

Just enjoy the win mate, days like that don't come around often for anyone.

 

[Carl77]

I think when Koeman arrived we all had massive expectations for the season as it was the first time in a generation that we had money to spend. It didn't go as we had planned/hoped and Koeman more or less had to work with what he had.... A team that had finished 11th two years on the trot. Most of us had believed it was the most talented squad we have had since the premier league started and in hindsight that may be true, but it doesn't mean that it was good enough to satisfy our expectations.

Despite @davek arguing in favour of Martinez, the guy did a serious job on us. True, he had a fantastic first season but the next 2 showed us that all he managed to do in his first season was put some attacking icing on a hard to beat Moyes team that had shown some glimpses of it's potential in DM's final season.

With a season under his belt all that hard work that Moyes had instilled in the players was finally worn away and we started to see how much of an impact Martinez's decision to remove fitness from the weekly training routine had on the squad. This, coupled with his inability to coach the defensive side of the game led to 2 lowly league finishes that were frankly unacceptable.

From a players perspective I can understand why they changed to Martinez's methods. For years under Moyes they had been told that they were punching above their weight and could be satisfied with where we were finishing. Martinez came in full of positivity and changed things. It would have been strange for them but using the basis of a hard to beat defence Martinez provided the team with a passing game that had them receiving plaudits that they hadn't received before and on top of that we took a few scalps off the big boys in that first season which endorsed his methods. The players buy into his methods fully and the downfall began.

If it can take a season to destroy the work ethic that Moyes imposed on the players it is going to take just as long to get it back, as it is certainly harder to regain fitness than it is to lose it.

I for one am certainly starting to see improvements of late and they are massive. To me Lukaku is looking 10 times the player he did under Martinez. This is the first time since he signed for us that I have seen him able to hold up a ball and bring other players into the game. I haven't seen him looking knackered after making a run for a long time. When under Martinez did you see him defend from the front? It's why we all thought he was lazy.

I liked the way we were able to keep the ball under Martinez but it was all very safe and too deep. We weren't a tackling team but rather retreated to our own half and tried to block lines of supply for the opposing player in possession. It rarely worked and if it ever did we only ever had one player in a counter attack as we'd retreated so much. It was frustrating to say the least. We couldn't attack and we couldn't defend.

It is a massive job but it is undoubtedly starting to show the players that the hard work is worth it. This window is a big one for us with outgoing players just as important as incomings. We've had too long with the McGeady's of this world hanging around our squad. Players like this (and I use that term lightly) lower the standard of the squad and with them leaving send a message to the rest of the squad that being below standard won't be tolerated. That should raise their own standards at the very least. Bringing in players like scheiderlin in a position that could be argued has enough cover forces competition and if that competition is of a higher standard than the ones that left it can only have a positive impact on the squad.

As I've said, it is a big job and won't be complete over night but I am seeing positive moves in the right direction. There is undoubted talent in this squad but it needs improving and the whole and those in the first 11 need to Know that there is someone breathing down their neck if their standards drop.

I don't want to wake up tomorrow and find we've done a City and bought a whole new starting 11. There are players here that I've grown to love and if they are eventually deemed not good enough it means we have improved enough for me to accept that they no longer warrant a place in an improved team. I want this to be an organic improvement and that is what I am seeing at the moment. A couple of new signings of a higher quality than those that leave/have left and the team continuing to work hard and I'll be happy with Koeman's first season as I cannot see us finishing lower than 7th. The summer should then see us able to attract that higher calibre of player needed to help with breaking the top 4.

Sorry it was a long one.

 

[Groucho]

*shudders

Ok what do you want again? You're like maggot.

Pack this in.

End of.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I'm not saying it wasn't meant kindly, it just sounded ridiculous consoling the most successful manager in recent times.

The bloke had just suffered the heaviest defeat of his managerial career! Seems a perfectly logical time for a friend and collegue to offer support and a kind word.

 

[Brennan]

The bloke had just suffered the heaviest defeat of his managerial career! Seems a perfectly logical time for a friend and collegue to offer support and a kind word.

Don't bother.

 

[davek]

In all seriousness, City looked the real deal that day. I left the ground saying i've never seen a team keep the ball off us so well. Which is probably what Koeman was getting at. I understand you might not have enjoyed his tactics at The Etihad, but he's learned, gone for a different system, and smashed them 4-0 the next time out. So I don't understand what your issue is.

Just enjoy the win mate, days like that don't come around often for anyone.

I haven't got an issue with the 4-0 win. I'm merely pointing out that Koeman over-egged the pudding in crowning the magnificence of City...and that first game was at a pint where they'd already gone off the boil from their early season dominance.

 

[ijjysmith]

I haven't got an issue with the 4-0 win. I'm merely pointing out that Koeman over-egged the pudding in crowning the magnificence of City...and that first game was at a pint where they'd already gone off the boil from their early season dominance.

Could have fooled me!

 

[davek]

Could have fooled me!

I dont know why you'd say that. I've stated a number of times since Sunday that was a thumping win. My caution is over thinking that we're going to be able to play like that against other teams who won't be near,y as cavalier as City are.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

More the case that we were pinned back by them for 90 minutes and offered no fight that day and Koeman settled on an explanation that enormously inflated City's prowess.

It's not like they had a 100% home record at that point and 18 out of 21 points on the board, is it?

Oh wait.

Pack it in ffs.

 

[Goat]

I haven't got an issue with the 4-0 win. I'm merely pointing out that Koeman over-egged the pudding in crowning the magnificence of City...and that first game was at a pint where they'd already gone off the boil from their early season dominance.

They won 5-0 the week before.

lollollollollollollol

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I think when Koeman arrived we all had massive expectations for the season as it was the first time in a generation that we had money to spend. It didn't go as we had planned/hoped and Koeman more or less had to work with what he had.... A team that had finished 11th two years on the trot. Most of us had believed it was the most talented squad we have had since the premier league started and in hindsight that may be true, but it doesn't mean that it was good enough to satisfy our expectations.

Despite @davek arguing in favour of Martinez, the guy did a serious job on us. True, he had a fantastic first season but the next 2 showed us that all he managed to do in his first season was put some attacking icing on a hard to beat Moyes team that had shown some glimpses of it's potential in DM's final season.

With a season under his belt all that hard work that Moyes had instilled in the players was finally worn away and we started to see how much of an impact Martinez's decision to remove fitness from the weekly training routine had on the squad. This, coupled with his inability to coach the defensive side of the game led to 2 lowly league finishes that were frankly unacceptable.

From a players perspective I can understand why they changed to Martinez's methods. For years under Moyes they had been told that they were punching above their weight and could be satisfied with where we were finishing. Martinez came in full of positivity and changed things. It would have been strange for them but using the basis of a hard to beat defence Martinez provided the team with a passing game that had them receiving plaudits that they hadn't received before and on top of that we took a few scalps off the big boys in that first season which endorsed his methods. The players buy into his methods fully and the downfall began.

If it can take a season to destroy the work ethic that Moyes imposed on the players it is going to take just as long to get it back, as it is certainly harder to regain fitness than it is to lose it.

I for one am certainly starting to see improvements of late and they are massive. To me Lukaku is looking 10 times the player he did under Martinez. This is the first time since he signed for us that I have seen him able to hold up a ball and bring other players into the game. I haven't seen him looking knackered after making a run for a long time. When under Martinez did you see him defend from the front? It's why we all thought he was lazy.

I liked the way we were able to keep the ball under Martinez but it was all very safe and too deep. We weren't a tackling team but rather retreated to our own half and tried to block lines of supply for the opposing player in possession. It rarely worked and if it ever did we only ever had one player in a counter attack as we'd retreated so much. It was frustrating to say the least. We couldn't attack and we couldn't defend.

It is a massive job but it is undoubtedly starting to show the players that the hard work is worth it. This window is a big one for us with outgoing players just as important as incomings. We've had too long with the McGeady's of this world hanging around our squad. Players like this (and I use that term lightly) lower the standard of the squad and with them leaving send a message to the rest of the squad that being below standard won't be tolerated. That should raise their own standards at the very least. Bringing in players like scheiderlin in a position that could be argued has enough cover forces competition and if that competition is of a higher standard than the ones that left it can only have a positive impact on the squad.

As I've said, it is a big job and won't be complete over night but I am seeing positive moves in the right direction. There is undoubted talent in this squad but it needs improving and the whole and those in the first 11 need to Know that there is someone breathing down their neck if their standards drop.

I don't want to wake up tomorrow and find we've done a City and bought a whole new starting 11. There are players here that I've grown to love and if they are eventually deemed not good enough it means we have improved enough for me to accept that they no longer warrant a place in an improved team. I want this to be an organic improvement and that is what I am seeing at the moment. A couple of new signings of a higher quality than those that leave/have left and the team continuing to work hard and I'll be happy with Koeman's first season as I cannot see us finishing lower than 7th. The summer should then see us able to attract that higher calibre of player needed to help with breaking the top 4.

Sorry it was a long one.

Good read that mate

They should put that on the front page of the site!

 

[Frank Gallagher]

I think when Koeman arrived we all had massive expectations for the season as it was the first time in a generation that we had money to spend. It didn't go as we had planned/hoped and Koeman more or less had to work with what he had.... A team that had finished 11th two years on the trot. Most of us had believed it was the most talented squad we have had since the premier league started and in hindsight that may be true, but it doesn't mean that it was good enough to satisfy our expectations.

Despite @davek arguing in favour of Martinez, the guy did a serious job on us. True, he had a fantastic first season but the next 2 showed us that all he managed to do in his first season was put some attacking icing on a hard to beat Moyes team that had shown some glimpses of it's potential in DM's final season.

With a season under his belt all that hard work that Moyes had instilled in the players was finally worn away and we started to see how much of an impact Martinez's decision to remove fitness from the weekly training routine had on the squad. This, coupled with his inability to coach the defensive side of the game led to 2 lowly league finishes that were frankly unacceptable.

From a players perspective I can understand why they changed to Martinez's methods. For years under Moyes they had been told that they were punching above their weight and could be satisfied with where we were finishing. Martinez came in full of positivity and changed things. It would have been strange for them but using the basis of a hard to beat defence Martinez provided the team with a passing game that had them receiving plaudits that they hadn't received before and on top of that we took a few scalps off the big boys in that first season which endorsed his methods. The players buy into his methods fully and the downfall began.

If it can take a season to destroy the work ethic that Moyes imposed on the players it is going to take just as long to get it back, as it is certainly harder to regain fitness than it is to lose it.

I for one am certainly starting to see improvements of late and they are massive. To me Lukaku is looking 10 times the player he did under Martinez. This is the first time since he signed for us that I have seen him able to hold up a ball and bring other players into the game. I haven't seen him looking knackered after making a run for a long time. When under Martinez did you see him defend from the front? It's why we all thought he was lazy.

I liked the way we were able to keep the ball under Martinez but it was all very safe and too deep. We weren't a tackling team but rather retreated to our own half and tried to block lines of supply for the opposing player in possession. It rarely worked and if it ever did we only ever had one player in a counter attack as we'd retreated so much. It was frustrating to say the least. We couldn't attack and we couldn't defend.

It is a massive job but it is undoubtedly starting to show the players that the hard work is worth it. This window is a big one for us with outgoing players just as important as incomings. We've had too long with the McGeady's of this world hanging around our squad. Players like this (and I use that term lightly) lower the standard of the squad and with them leaving send a message to the rest of the squad that being below standard won't be tolerated. That should raise their own standards at the very least. Bringing in players like scheiderlin in a position that could be argued has enough cover forces competition and if that competition is of a higher standard than the ones that left it can only have a positive impact on the squad.

As I've said, it is a big job and won't be complete over night but I am seeing positive moves in the right direction. There is undoubted talent in this squad but it needs improving and the whole and those in the first 11 need to Know that there is someone breathing down their neck if their standards drop.

I don't want to wake up tomorrow and find we've done a City and bought a whole new starting 11. There are players here that I've grown to love and if they are eventually deemed not good enough it means we have improved enough for me to accept that they no longer warrant a place in an improved team. I want this to be an organic improvement and that is what I am seeing at the moment. A couple of new signings of a higher quality than those that leave/have left and the team continuing to work hard and I'll be happy with Koeman's first season as I cannot see us finishing lower than 7th. The summer should then see us able to attract that higher calibre of player needed to help with breaking the top 4.

Sorry it was a long one.

couldnt have put it better myself. bang on the mark.

 

[Mountfield1985]

I haven't got an issue with the 4-0 win. I'm merely pointing out that Koeman over-egged the pudding in crowning the magnificence of City...and that first game was at a pint where they'd already gone off the boil from their early season dominance.

Well that's their problem, not ours.