Ronald Koeman discussion

[Connor]

I dare you to find out who agrees with you on this. Koeman has made going the match enjoyable again, like the transition from Smith to Moyes (the first 7ish years).
For hubris, see: big fecking Solo le mejor poster and 2 years of impotent football.

Absolutely no one.

The last fella tried to con us all by saying really nice things about the club, our history and buying into our plucky mentality.

Koeman doesn't 'get' us and that's absolutely fine. Because he's a winner and we haven't been that for a long time. We don't want him to buy in, we want him to overhaul and fix us.

Winning football games > a philosophy and being dead nice to everyone.

 

[Librarian]

I think that's a long winded way of saying they real and he was an atrocious manager and realised that they only get one career and playing under him for too long was going to be detrimental.

I think the players need to take some of the flack too, they basically downed tools.

 

[davek]

I dare you to find out who agrees with you on this. Koeman has made going the match enjoyable again, like the transition from Smith to Moyes (the first 7ish years).
For hubris, see: big fecking Solo le mejor poster and 2 years of impotent football.

The difference being that was the club with the mural, these are Koemans own words.

 

[Connor]

Wasnt it him who said Leighton had appologised for his words being"miss quoted".. All Leighton had actually said was that the team lacked chemistry. Why would Leighton need to appologise if he was actually miss quoted in the first place.
Fruit loop !!!

At that point he'd lost the squad and Baines had already left training early a few times as he'd had enough of absolutely clueless sessions.

Nor did Baines "apologise" and nor should he have had to.

You cannot be "misquoted" in modern football, what with the amount of embargoes and people quotes have to go through first before being published.

We were not playing like we should have and we were in free fall. He was absolutely right and so was the flag taken to Watford. Baines is one of us.

 

[ianefc]

I think the players need to take some of the flack too, they basically downed tools.

Did they down tools at Wigan as well?

 

[DrEFC]

The difference being that was the club with the mural, these are Koemans own words.

OK, talking about a swagger and football arrogance. Then being completely crap at your job and surrounding yourself with yes men.

 

[banno]

It may have been only one season but we were playing our best football in decades under Martines. You can't take that away from him.

It appears to me that at some stage, and we don't know exactly why, but the senior players and maybe some of the staff weren't having him anymore. The enthusiasm died off and the passing football became slow and predictable.

You are right. His first season was excellent and some of the football was great but why would the players switch off and refuse to play that way again or refuse to do what he wanted. Maybe it was over complication, maybe a poor run and they seen RM didn't try to change anything. I always believe that the Chelsea defeat at home (6-3) was the start of the end for him with regards to the players and the leakings in the press of the defence not being worked on for set pieces. It seemed to turn sour from then on and he let the players walk all over him and maybe down tools. They didn't buy into his methods anymore and RM let them get away with that attitude. I know we really cannot judge Koeman till next season but IMO he would ditch players with a click of his finger if they or he felt had downed tools or questioned his methods. IMO that is what any manager should do...RM didn't. One thing I have no doubt about is the team has vastly improved compared to the previous 2 seasons despite it being a bumpy road.

I suspect he was too soft with them and then when hard decisions had to be made he didn't command enough authority.

We'll have to wait and see if Koeman's being more practical and a lot more authoritarian to stop the rot and get things under control, we won't know until next season plays out.

 

[Librarian]

Did they down tools at Wigan as well?

They've been downing tools at Wigan their entire history.
Wigan did alright out of it.

 

[hktoffee]

They've been downing tools at Wigan their entire history.
Wigan did alright out of it.

There is no evidence to prove (in his entire career) he is good enough at PL level (our current level anyway) apart from one freak season which he inherited a team which finished 6th in the previous season.

 

[thebluenosebolt]

At that point he'd lost the squad and Baines had already left training early a few times as he'd had enough of absolutely clueless sessions.

Nor did Baines "apologise" and nor should he have had to.

You cannot be "misquoted" in modern football, what with the amount of embargoes and people quotes have to go through first before being published.

We were not playing like we should have and we were in free fall. He was absolutely right and so was the flag taken to Watford. Baines is one of us.

Everyone saw what was happening, Well....nearly everyone it seems. At least 99% of the fans on here saw it, The media had picked up on it...the club finally acted on it.
Good riddance !!

 

[ianefc]

They've been downing tools at Wigan their entire history.
Wigan did alright out of it.

I disagree I wouldn't swap a 6 game cup victory under Koeman and a relegation, so I'm not sure why they should

 

[Connor]

I disagree I wouldn't swap a 6 game cup victory under Koeman for a relegation, so I'm not sure why they should

Because it comes with football from the Gods that include consistent drubbings away at Chelsea and Spurs and losing to Swansea's reserve side on a Tuesday night.

 

[MikeH72]

They've been downing tools at Wigan their entire history.
Wigan did alright out of it.

They didn't really did they, when you consider they've gone from being established in the Premier League to yo-yoing between the Championship and League 1.

 

[Caolam]

Martinez' s comments reflect very poorly on him, to criticise the manager who replaced you and who is doing much better than you is churlish at best.
While I was very happy to see him go and doubt his quality as a manager I thought he was more of a man.

 

[davek]

It may have been only one season but we were playing our best football in decades under Martines. You can't take that away from him.

It appears to me that at some stage, and we don't know exactly why, but the senior players and maybe some of the staff weren't having him anymore. The enthusiasm died off and the passing football became slow and predictable.

I suspect he was too soft with them and then when hard decisions had to be made he didn't command enough authority.

We'll have to wait and see if Koeman's being more practical and a lot more authoritarian to stop the rot and get things under control, we won't know until next season plays out.

Good post. The thing is though mate that Koeman can now afford to "click his fingers" and dismiss first teamers. That wasn't an option for Martinez.

Personally I think the failure to progress was down to the need for players to develop beyond their capabilities. They were stretched to the limit in that first season and couldn't get any further with their talents. This switch back to a less possession based game - license to be more direct under RK - has suited them like slipping into an old suit. Hence the response.