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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
Good post. The thing is though mate that Koeman can now afford to "click his fingers" and dismiss first teamers. That wasn't an option for Martinez.

Personally I think the failure to progress was down to the need for players to develop beyond their capabilities. They were stretched to the limit in that first season and couldn't get any further with their talents. This switch back to a less possession based game - license to be more direct under RK - has suited them like slipping into an old suit. Hence the response.
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Surely any manager worth his salt would recognise the fact that the group of players cant go beyond there capabilities and adapt to suit?

Hence why Martinez got sacked as he couldnt identify ways to use them to the best of there abilities on a consistent basis.
By the very nature of your logic, the fact RK is now getting a tune out of them speaks volumes.
 
jinkyali said:
Surely any manager worth his salt would recognise the fact that the group of players cant go beyond there capabilities and adapt to suit?

Hence why Martinez got sacked as he couldnt identify ways to use them to the best of there abilities on a consistent basis.
By the very nature of your logic, the fact RK is now getting a tune out of them speaks volumes.
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A largely agree with that. Martinez couldn't adapt. Ironically if he'd done a Moyes after the first season and just made us hard to beat at home then he'd have got a decent PL position, retained his job and the new money would have allowed him to get players in he wanted and get rid of those he couldn't previously.
 

davek said:
A largely agree with that. Martinez couldn't adapt. Ironically if he'd done a Moyes after the first season and just made us hard to beat at home then he'd have got a decent PL position, retained his job and the new money would have allowed him to get players in he wanted and get rid of those he couldn't previously.
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The results proved he did not have such ability. If he had got 7th etc in his 2nd and 3rd season he would not get the sack.
 
davek said:
A largely agree with that. Martinez couldn't adapt. Ironically if he'd done a Moyes after the first season and just made us hard to beat at home then he'd have got a decent PL position, retained his job and the new money would have allowed him to get players in he wanted and get rid of those he couldn't previously.
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The very nature that he couldnt adapt, and couldnt get a tune out of the players consistently then is a fundamental flaw in his managerial make up? As a good manager you simply need to have a variety of attitudes/tactics/styles/plans and Bobby never seemed to have. Nice guy, but where do nice guys finish? Last.

I know we have 'debated' over RK and I appreciate you hate him and his attitude, but surely you cant deny that he has shown more willing to adapt and 'find a way' than Martinez who I know you rate so highly? For me, that is a huge managerial skill and it seems RK does have more in his locker.

He has proven he can play good football AND mix it up. He has also proven he can get consistent results out of players and acheive high points totals and positions. He may be brash but if he is telling the players the same thing, which he is, then really know one can argue.

You can talk about him not acting in a manner that 'befits' the Everton way but I really dont think there is an Everton way. Moyes/Smith/Martinez all behaved at times apallingly and made questionable comments/decisions.
Maybe it is just human nature?
I do suggest pride comes before a fall and I sincerely hope that by the end of this season and next you are very much LIKING RK as it will mean he has done a job well done. If you can find fault in most of what he does now, when were doing very well and developing as a team then I cant wait to see how were doing should you actually like the man in time.
 

Westend Blue said:
Are you kidding me?
4 Dutch league winners
4 Laliga titles
2 European cups
1988 euros
As a player

3 Dutch leagues as a manager
And a Copa del relay

He's won more as an individual then we have as a club ffs. And you could make arguments that he is the finest centrehalf to ever play the game.
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To be fair, Oumar Niasse could have won trophies in the Barcelona side he played in
 
jinkyali said:
The very nature that he couldnt adapt, and couldnt get a tune out of the players consistently then is a fundamental flaw in his managerial make up? As a good manager you simply need to have a variety of attitudes/tactics/styles/plans and Bobby never seemed to have. Nice guy, but where do nice guys finish? Last.

I know we have 'debated' over RK and I appreciate you hate him and his attitude, but surely you cant deny that he has shown more willing to adapt and 'find a way' than Martinez who I know you rate so highly? For me, that is a huge managerial skill and it seems RK does have more in his locker.

He has proven he can play good football AND mix it up. He has also proven he can get consistent results out of players and acheive high points totals and positions. He may be brash but if he is telling the players the same thing, which he is, then really know one can argue.

You can talk about him not acting in a manner that 'befits' the Everton way but I really dont think there is an Everton way. Moyes/Smith/Martinez all behaved at times apallingly and made questionable comments/decisions.
Maybe it is just human nature?
I do suggest pride comes before a fall and I sincerely hope that by the end of this season and next you are very much LIKING RK as it will mean he has done a job well done. If you can find fault in most of what he does now, when were doing very well and developing as a team then I cant wait to see how were doing should you actually like the man in time.
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I've only latterly seen evidence of Koemans ability to adapt. These last 6 weeks he's woken up and smelled the coffee regarding the type of specific talent he has at his disposal and turned away from his usual game of getting the ball forward too quickly at almost every opportunity....a tactic that blighted our season up to that point.

So no, I don't accept your point in Koeman. He has next season to prove consistently what his methodology is here because it's been a bit of a dogs breakfast thus far.
 
Westend Blue said:
Are you kidding me?
4 Dutch league winners
4 Laliga titles
2 European cups
1988 euros
As a player

3 Dutch leagues as a manager
And a Copa del relay

He's won more as an individual then we have as a club ffs. And you could make arguments that he is the finest centrehalf to ever play the game.
Click to expand...
The only relevant stats are his managerial ones and they aren't major trophies in major leagues.

Look, stop genuflecting to Koeman. He's lucky be HERE. Not the other way around. He is a second or third tier European manager and he's here at a top tier English club with a tradition of success - the 4th most successful in English football.
 
Westend Blue said:
Are you kidding me?
4 Dutch league winners
4 Laliga titles
2 European cups
1988 euros
As a player

3 Dutch leagues as a manager
And a Copa del relay

He's won more as an individual then we have as a club ffs. And you could make arguments that he is the finest centrehalf to ever play the game.
Click to expand...
At this stage it's not even worth it mate. We should all be dead excited about watching boss everton again in the next hour but instead we're getting into pointless arguments where all except one person is on our side.
 

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